BTG 03 - Gi vs No Gi

[Music] hey what's going on I'm David Avila I'm here with Robert Drysdale and today we're presenting our third episode of breaking the guard podcast on today's episode we don't have a guest so I guess it's just so swinging it yeah so we actually picked a topic that we're going to talk about beforehand which I think will work which is the holgie versus noogie argument yeah right you know there's a lot of people say you have to train the key yeah to understand the fundamentals of jujitsu yeah whereas some people you know if you're no key guy or you gonna do MMA they say there's no reasoning with the key so I think it's obvious where I probably stand on this yeah I tried getting David Agee didn't work that's good I'll let you start on I think first and foremost I think we have to remind ourselves why we do jiu-jitsu you know I mean I always say this that self-defense is what something will get someone through the door or the desire of being a UFC champion will get you through the door what gets you to stay is the culture is the love of the art now right ultimately really what we were looking for is what we call the third place all right first place is home you gotta go home second place is work you got to go to work the third place is the place you choose to be no one's forcing you go to the gym you go there because it's a happy place it's a happy environment you enjoy working out you enjoy the door fins you get a kick out of it I remember I did a Hapkido as a as a kid when I was like eight nine years old and there was no sparring it was just drill drill drilling from the mirror and I hated it I did it for two years because I really I was really attracted to martial arts but it was became very boring because I did get the endorphins out of it right so going back to my point is I I believe that people train because it makes them feel good I think that's ultimately the reason why people show up every day it's not I think the metal is a motivation the belt or the prestige and there's all that going on as well but ultimately it's what keeps people coming back is that it's a happy environment so if you're loving it and you're enjoying it first and foremost who cares all right if you're having fun if you're enjoying it like you preferred this over that with that being said I I highly recommend both for my students because if anything they get double the experience you're gonna get two divisions so even their like I absolutely hate the key or no key well if you do both you get double the experience because I know David Avalons on the other side you know the dad I didn't want to train in and without a gate and I think Matt at least do it for the experience right so like that's even like technical distinctions aside I think experience wise you get a little more out of it I'll go with you on that point you sure you didn't get more experience I know just as a competitor I'm missing out on more than half of the tournaments because there's Morgie divisions yeah tournaments and there are no gay although that's looks like it's shifting a little bit it's shifting with a submission only thing is it's getting closer to 5050 but regardless you at least you losing 50% yeah the opportunities to compete which as a comparator is very important and more competition you get the more feedback you're getting the more you can improve the more you get to see different styles so for sure on the competition aspect like a hundred percent see it and you're right like if you're having a good time like people say oh if I can't train this I mean if you're training you're already winning yeah but uh I think more when I was focusing down on is some people are just saying even if you're gonna be an Okie competitor or an MMA competitor you should still be training the ghee yeah hi this is what I stand like I don't I've seen people do well yourself like I've seen you do very well when you compete at the highest level when you trying to exclusively nogi right right and then I've seen the opposite too I've seen people and I don't [ __ ] when people I tell him this like when we were not we went to 82 C 2007 we arguably the best performance a teen has ever had in a DCCC we had five competitors and we brought home seven trophies with five competitors like not trying to be arrogant it's a very good precedent like other than Pablo who's on a team at the time everyone else trying to give the whole time like we took our DS off a month or two before ADCC other than that was 90% D so my point is we've seen it both ways we've seen people succeed in the game we see people succeed in Oogie I think that there are technical differences but they're marginal compared to the grand scheme of things there's a lot a lot of more numbers in the equation and I've been the thing is as people would to focus a lot on our differences so you get something like politics or that contentious issue people they hyper focus on the stuff we disagree about and the stuff we agree on which is like really when you pay attention but most of it then no one knows it's not even up the discussion right but if you look at Aggie and noogie I think there's a lot more overlapping people they hyper focus on the stuff we disagree about and the stuff we agree on which is like really when you pay attention but most of it then no one knows it's not even up the discussion right but if you look at Aggie and noogie I think there's a lot more overlapping than people realize there's a lot more over there things like for example I think the one element that is very neglected when people are talking about becoming a champion to win the tournament it just has got to be dead voice like way in there when you're tired or exhausted and your advantage behind your opponent you're gonna really flip that switch I'm gonna win that right there to me is the most important factor more than anything else you know and that's one thing that it's not even part of the discussion because it's something very hard to talk about because it's so personal right it's so deep in your psyche you can't really discuss but going back to Guillen Oggy I think that the differences are real but I think they're grossly exaggerated if you look I've just just a finalizing my point like in the ghee what can't you do noogie we're talking caller jokes and spider guard and now lapel guard which is a new thing right but other than that like it's virtually identical like I don't I see for far more similarities and differences right for every difference I see 50 similarities yeah you know going to the competition standpoint like your team bringing in seven trophies in a super impressive and if we were to look just taking a TCC for example of all the people who've medaled who trained primarily Kia the majority of them half right there's a few exceptions like people coming in now like Gordon yeah even and he does train with the guy he's just it's not as bad yeah yeah as much right so the counter-argument to that to me to me would be is a well traditionally people were training with the ghee first yeah coming through people like me were more of a rarity where like we just came from MMA and were wrestling him okay now we're going to start doing yeah you know the josh hangers of the world exactly from nogi and they trained d later or you know never specialize in the gate would differ background correct so like to me that argument because i allowed to bring it up all the champions are key guys I won't because they've been training first and for the longest amount of time so I think looking historically that's gonna be skewed I think now like I think from this point we have a generation that's already come up training late 2000s and now have about 10 years in guys like Ward in yeah Gary like let's see how they do and obviously Gordon's already doing well but he's just one guy you know like yeah the crop well one argument against them yeah I'm not sure against noogie but example the planet team in this eighty CC trials they had 60 or 70 competitors yeah and none of them made it to the trials yeah that's impressive yeah Bobby I'd and off yet and the next away sound like even like statistically should have like eight people yeah you know like people can say oh no key didn't work like that that's a sect of night training and more things there yeah but I mean I agree with you that for example like going back to the important like a lot of the guys that come through the gear ank's end up doing well at ECC it is a little scoot because a lot of the like high-level wrestlers assemble artists are outside of the ATCC circuit if you look at that a DCC fan base who are they just the IBEW Jeff crowd it's the same people so you know it is it is it's not it is a way of looking at it but it's not fair at the same time because the ATCC audience is the BJJ iba jf audience they're largely the same like how many sümbül guys in russia are studying at ECC tapes to compete like they made the cut beams of the world might have them well if kebede hey I'm not gonna do it may I'm gonna win it easy to see he might have won you know I mean like they had that the quality training partners yeah maybe they were lacking some back takes maybe they're lacking some things that BJJ emphasizes that stumble and you know don't were wrestling don't but you know I think you would have done well had he been in that circuit whereas the people who are winning a DCC they were Simonton doing IBJJF and EvCC so and they were folks and on the ruled those rules and even though they attempted to make a TCC rules more wrestling oriented they still are largely based around BJJ rules if you took a close look yeah it's it's the fundamental closer to BJJ it is to wrestling so there's that as well but going back to the 10th planet guy like I'm not trying to attack anyone here but I think it has to do with like Eddie has a very narrow vision of you know like he does he teaches what works from you could see these heavyweights like I've seen my tournaments your trial a trouble guard and you can't even reach for their ankles but they're trying you know and I think it's like yeah and you gotta be careful with systems I'm not crazy about systems I think systems work as in like as an option for the group and like sort of thing first I'm your key more trap I like to keep more trap because it works everywhere yeah give me fat or skinny it don't matter right a rubber guard is not something everyone can do in this story there's a very small percent I'm pretty flexible man I [ __ ] struggle sometimes I'm watching every down then I watch a highlight video of someone doing something really cool from then I'm like you can't teach that in class you understand that right if you run a program like that you would fail you would fail as a team Ian fails of business and I think there's an overemphasis on like certain things and I believe that jujitsu technique or teaching has to be democratic what do I mean by that and I've always focused on that and I think that's one reason my program has always done well I don't teach you just for the margins I teach you just at the core at the center what is it that works for everyone yeah so I've gotten flack from some of my students cuz I'm teaching of beer in bowls I'll show a burn ball it's not my specialty for that matter but like to make a program based off of that oh but that's what so-and-so does like aoj does that like that's a lot of their game is based off of that yeah look what's the average weight of the aoj practitioner other ways like exactly like how many heavyweights coming out of that gym like one none you know so you know if you don't approach like a broad audience you have to teach her jiu-jitsu that is right around the center something that works for everyone and I think a lot of these nogi gems coming out the submission only movement they they're missing that so that's less to do with the ghee and no ghee in my opinion it has to do with the fact that they have a very narrow approach today Jitsu I agree they are very focused on the submission aspect of it less on the position which is which is huge for tournaments because you need points if MMA purposes remember tosses yourself fence this is like it's a man-made martial arts arts of war yeah you can't leave position behind like it's not gonna work no but it is what it is yeah so I think from me back it's kind of like you said outside of really what I'd like because I have my background you know it came from I did the G kundo for a year then went into is it a grappling gene code or no there is I was on a stuck because I remember Bruce Lee had gloves on yeah yeah big gloves like Sciuto gloves oh yeah so I did that for a year and I learned arm bars on the triangle okay oh this is like in 1995 okay but uh the thing with the G cone though at least of Kauai was that they would show you 20 techniques in one class and then the next class it was a totally different set of techniques so whatever like later it's it's an enormous they're just like with a fire hose yeah yeah and there wasn't any live in the normal training sessions so you're just getting tons of theory without application right so like I remember after I started training and my main with my brother he was showing me the armbar like man and there as soon as before I said good we did this and you can go yeah and I it's one sick of me man past you teaching my students like all the more the better because I think that when you're young is an age thing too I remember being like 18 19 and someone someone show something new I didn't have to drill it man I was like you're like Neil he's like you just absorb that information like I don't have to drill a thing it just like I got it I'd do it the next day well I got I got an old I sometimes I call me see that again let's see that again like I have to watch like four or five times you know like we had Phoebe pin it I had to watch that transition to the back get on board like 35 times I've still not sure I got it you know it's I think something happens there too like there's something about the for the younger mind being more flexible and absorb information a lot faster that is it is an interesting man like I I don't I don't think anyone has ever found like a perfect ideal recipe to train digits or teach jiu-jitsu because people are so different yeah yeah to anybody you know like my style like I know for example when I started competing like in 98 I was doing grappling tournaments against people who only trained geek yep and I had a lot of early success nogi because nobody was training without the geek you're doing a hoax heel hooks neck crank they had no idea what they're young and you know neat cut passes and stuff like that like I put out a highlight video the other day it was just neat cut passing and I just sliced through everybody's guards early in pickup I guess that's not as popular or I don't know but man I was just cutting through everybody's guards he cut cartwheel passes and stuff I'm doing a lot of unorthodox stuff right and uh in the leg locks in particular nobody was doing it yeah so even like though I my stuff was basic compared to what is now like peoples like block game is way more complex than what I was doing but he was still ahead yeah I was still way ahead of the curve back then right so I felt that gave me an edge and also the gripping is different right I think there's doesn't want to fundamental difference between Guinot guys at grips yeah right gripping is very different because you're gonna be grabbing material so that you're gonna have more of a closed hand grip yeah yeah nogi grip is open as open so you have to work on this type of grip that it's different right so like for wrestling this is you work a lot of it like one thing I always told people your grip should be this yeah little finger little finger everybody does this and you lose this part that's how I've always held a kin were like that yeah grab the wrist with the middle finger yeah so if you're like this you got stronger grips and then like I've trained with wrestlers that they just focus purely and then they have a grip that they grab your wrist and you can't get rid of it because a lot of gripping is about focus and stuff too so there's a lot of noogie gripping concepts like hiding your thumb yeah like how do you put your thumb when you're grabbing a name yeah thing which if you just train purely ghee you kind of miss out on that because you still grab the wrists it's just less like there are situations for exempt for polling we use the ghee lot for pushing I don't use the gate for pushing use the body if I want to move your arm I don't grab the ghee and try to move your arm I grab your wrist or you're in the inside of your you said I'm saying so for pulling the ghee is very functional but for push I use an open hand but yeah you're right like very very few situations am I gonna be holding on to my opponent with an open hand and trying to pull because it's just not a good pull you know the ghee is a much better handle for sure holding although for pushing I prefer the body so yeah I think in that regard it's like if I'm like because up I have a school in Miami it's all nogi and MMA babe you know so we do a little bit of everything in there I don't really have anybody as a pure grappler yeah or anybody's mixing everything up and I teach it that way so for my guys like if I was to tell them put on like e right now you know to train for MMA it seems counterintuitive yeah you know I don't know what you're he's at once again I'm a little back to my argument like I I enjoy the gate because I feel like there are layers of technique that I miss out on noogie like spider guard oh it doesn't work in a fight true it's still fun though it's still awesome and like potpourri mold so it's pretty [ __ ] would you do it man like it feels good you just feel like you did something really cool you know and ultimately like I said this is what we're does it work from MA know what I teach it in and make class absolutely not well there's so much more to Jiu Jitsu than that right we're grappling for that matter I I don't think that the differences are that great and a lot of MMA guys and I've you know I've trained a lot of MMA fighters and very few of them were willing to put a gear on when they would ask me would you train with the guy yes I put it on once a week once or twice a week and then most of them like that's a 90% for like oh that's stupid I'm not gonna fight Nicky why would I train Nicky and that's the you know that's the argument right there you know in a very simplistic way you just look at yeah why would I put a gear on if I'm not gonna fight again buddy used to grips I'm not gonna use and there's something there's an argument there but again you got to look at everything else you do you know I'll say jogging you know training the G is a hundred times close for a real fight the sure you're not gonna go in a cage like I can't stop myself from jogging I do burpees from you know to and like I can't stop myself keep my hands up I gotta do burpees like the whole thing that you're gonna become [ __ ] when you take your gear off it doesn't stand either because we've seen guys that trying to give their whole lives I think they're gives off and they're not [ __ ] they know what they don't look for grips like aw where's that caller where's that sleeve now they they end up wrestling the way a wrestler would write maybe not as well as a d1 wrestler right not skill level wise but they don't become like stupid you don't lose their skill and I've always made the argument for the gate that people should training Aggie not because it's gonna make their it's not just that on their door technical difference so I'm not disputing that but there are certain things about it that it's kind of like jogging let's say you got bad cardio right this is jogging gonna make you a better grappler marginally it's gonna help a little bit it's gonna put the tightest flipping a tire close to a real fight how close will real fight is for gonna tire not at all right yeah trainee he's a lot closer and I don't care what people say trained McGee is more close to the UFC than flipping a tire it's for the same reason there are certain benefits of flipping a tire you're getting the explosiveness you can't cheat flipping a tire example you have to flip it or you don't right you can't like you've been a jog it's gonna improve your cardio there's certain things about the key that I like about I was just talking to Kevin Lee about this thing I've been gettin Kendall eat more in the game like once a week he puts his key on and he's hated it but he's liking it like he's eight and he's like it's like a love-hate relationship but he's so athletic that you put him in a bad spot and he can scramble out of him was anything like you're in a bad spot in a geek you're [ __ ] like it's very hard to scramble because there's so much more friction so one thing it does teach you this is like a difference but it's like it's not like once again it's not the one ended you know make-or-break kind of difference it teaches you a lot of prevention because you know that once you lose that under go fight with that friction the cost you pay is far greater than when you lose at nogi it's far different order to recover right so it teaches you prevent that it's a preemptive lesson you learn don't be in that spot in the first place because once you're caught they're like you're training with Marcel and he grabs your in the collar and he puts that shoulder on your face you're not moving man when it gets over like it around the round is over right so by when I train with him I don't let him grab that call to begin with because I know what's going to if you grab that caller so it's prevention prevention prevention right there's uh I used to be far more key oriented and I think I've changed my mind in a lot of regards and I think I blame idgaf for that to some extent I think they've been very slow to adapt to changes in jujitsu and I worry that they're committing the same mistakes that judo has committed early in the 20th century that was exactly the problem judo it's dangerous let's ban it it's dangerous let's banner it's dangerous let's ban what happened yeah it became a sport it's not being a marshal I mean yeah it's a marshal but it's lost so much of its wealth we know this you know that much of what we call Brazilian jiu-jitsu today has existed in judo for over a hundred years and from my understanding judo had striking and it was a fool yeah the old jujitsu schools were like you know a variety of school tradition specialty so your will be a Kimura trap mine will be a right hand left hook in clinch yeah a variety of you know different schools that you know had different you know styles but judo lost over time and lost a lot of its submissions and then what a wooded BJJ pickup's went in off of the fact that there were very few grappling arts out there that were allowing all these submissions right wrestling included oh I think wrestling lost a lot because they stopped they there were no cameras there were no guillotines imagine how much more efficient wrestling would be as a martial art if from the beginning they had a lot of foot locks yeah you see what I'm saying we end up more or less where we end up now with submission wrestling with a DCC we could have had that a hundred years ago had it not been banned and my worried that if I I did Jeff a lot allowing heel hooks for example they're committing that they're making that same mistake and then you know 50 years so now we're gonna look back and we're gonna go what happened like why did they not allow that no I can see that you know so tracing back key as an alternative training method additional resistance yeah harder escapes for sure you know like I can definitely see that I don't think just to put Mario I don't think it works against I goth I trained with the give now I'm gonna be worse no you I don't think that yeah access at all right especially if I'm doing more like if I'm an MMA fighter I'm doing a lot of nogi stuff and then every so often they I put on the gear yeah I don't see any problem you're not gonna if I can take your back people think I'm gonna lose my skills of like trust and I can see benefits to grip strength as well yes you do have to rely on a lot more there's more situations where you have to really use a grip you know what the thing that you train a lot in the gear just reminded me of something that I feel like I don't always have as much nogi is the isometric strength there's a lot more of this kind of strength because there's less left movement yeah nogi is for more dynamic which is one reason why always liked it when I was in Brazil I liked no game more than ghee because it was like 90 percent of our training was ghee all right so when we took a gig I was like - no gig I like very bad heel hooks but I'm the one who did them yeah you know people are asking me questions on he looks because I knew nothing but I knew more than everyone else right now but I have fun with that and I over time like it's kind of you know shifted back and forth but yeah I like the idea of the training balls like I've always enjoyed that I've never been I've always in my classes at my gym you know there's about 60 46% you 40% know game more or less and I would be okay with a 50/50 split but I get the impression because my beginners classes ghee when people training long enough in the ghee it's hard to put them to get the gear off and it's the same thing with no ghee if you drink too long no ghee the more you train the less likely you are to like put a ghee on like down the road right so because my no beginners classes are ye my geek classes tend to be more popular I feel like and then so that maybe explains like why the classes have drifted like a 60/40 ratio well as a school owner I can see that benefit of having a key foundation because having the uniform just from bringing people in you're already the martial arts has already you know that neither God you had the uniform you know you had a belt ranks when you're doing nogi stuff like we do the bell rang he's always a little funny because you don't don't have a belt you know we have color shirt so you have a badge or you have something like that you know it's a little bit of a it's the spiral yeah it really throws it off because parents want to see them in the uniform and have the picture with the belt you know from a business perspective I 100% agree with you from a business perspective why the belt helps the ghee helps uniform helps sure is I think generics or well the Japanese are known for right traditional respects and I think a lot of parents when they bring their kids and they're looking for that yeah we've had instructors that were very nice to kids and then we have instructors who are like you know drill sergeants and the parents prefer the the drill sergeants that the agent I think you know this generation you know of parents they they're almost scared of discipline their parents other children like they're scared like you can't yellow your kid my mom is do beat the crap out of me as a kid I yelled at my daughter then she got mad at me like I yelled it or I'd even touch her you shouldn't yell at her I'm like mom used to beat the crap out of me you know but like we become so scared of it I think one reason why the parents bring their kids on a martial art school was because they want their children disciplined know and I think in uniform and the order and the ranks and the higher call that people like that and I struggle with this law because when I started my gym I didn't believe in any of this like I don't know you don't have to call me master sensei and have to bow to get on the mats wear whatever you want and it's a very it's it's interesting but people don't like that you know I got a lot of people's like all robbed you can put uniforms in Zenith jiu-jitsu now if you're broken like it's the opposite they love the influencing people like uniforms like the parents love it the students love it oh yeah there's some people they have like 30 surely oh geez at home they're gonna complain but for the most part you know that's one student versus the other fifty who love it you know you got to do what's best for the group and you know as a business owner of course that that helps me to like it's it makes more sense I don't have to compete with Amazon yeah you know it's not like Jeff pesto's needs more money yeah so if there's from a no matter how you cut it it's a better you know that the G is a better business model no yeah it's much easier to be to enforce it yeah you know even with a noogie classes sometimes you say oh you know where you're you're ranked shirt and people start wearing different color shirts so they weren't like somebody else's shirt is the whole trust thing yeah I think I think it's funny because did you just gone full circle right it was a Japanese thing originally no judo goes to Brazil becomes bruising jiu-jitsu I think one reason why it was so attracted to Americans is that it was so different from other martial arts in the sense where you know it was really I had that so much of that Brazilian culture I insist in the Brazilian jiu-jitsu no I used to hate it I think nationally ISM does not belong in jiu-jitsu this is stupid get rid of the flags right that's that's always been my approach I insist on a Brazilian now because there's so much a Brazilian culture that has been incorporated into Brazilian jiu-jitsu but it's ironic because I can see I can observe this change now like it's becoming less and less Japanese like respect honor have gone out the window you know like people used to be like Master may I learn from you I am privileged to be in front of you and learning from your master now the students are like what are you gonna do to keep me here I'm special I got a million followers you know like that's kind of like the mindset of the new generation if things got flipped on its head like it sounds like this structure should feel lucky to have a good student in his gym right and it's becoming very Americanized in the sense where it is bored of the Brazilian beach culture buddy-buddy system go train with your friends in your garage do what everyone it's a very Brazilian thing yeah it's it's Dyan like if your school and on your running their business like that you're gonna go a lot of business eventually because it's becoming very Americanized very business oriented right so it's interesting as you eat like that how much Japanese Brazilian our American coach have influenced jiu-jitsu and I can see these changes I guess because I'm need I'm overly sensitive this because I grew up in Brazil you don't spend half my life there I can see these changes like the Brazilian way of running a gym of being in the gym and just hanging out with your buddies and showing up late and do whatever whatever you want it's a it's a dying breed like it's I think 10 15 years from now it's gonna be run very very business-wise and if you're not doing that you're gonna be out of business you know that's what the thing you talk about the respect and the but I call it the virtues of the martial arts it really bothers me when I see it slipping away all right like I had posted something online I think was when uber Santos he had that little came out I guess one of the guys set swing to him and he got upset he's charged them charge somebody else by the way to Hill a knee right yeah someone yell at you like has someone yelling you know so yeah that was ridiculous there's no excuse for that whatsoever and they're coming you know what a poor reflection of a black belt and it's home puts a black belt just means you're a good fighter and I and I it wasn't read anything and I got downloaded to hell I was like and this is a problem like people think that a black belt is just a signifies your skill level well your knowledge so much more and it's a lot more do it I have people that you know never got the black belt they stuck at brown bow because you know I didn't feel they had the right temperament or right care I have people of regret promoting because they didn't have like the character necessary to to be proud because people understand those like essentially our legacy is being passed through our students yeah and if you have students that are you know they bad people you know a bad character you're legacies gonna get tarnished by that yeah yeah because once me and you die out you know they're who's the next people carrying the torch if those people are not good instructors they're not gonna spread anymore and and essentially you're trees dead I know so to me the character part of the marsh or it's like you said it's you the beginning it's the most important thing because at the end they all the punching and kicking and submissions are all cute and stuff but when you're like 60 years old and stuff you're not that doesn't really mean much that way what means more is gonna be like what virtues you've learned through the martial arts so you are able to apply to all the areas your life your work your family your relationships the real value yeah that's what I take and I and I hate sound like the old man because wonder 20 don't give a crap about any of this right you just want to win and I get that at 20 but like you know in retired being retired I think we agree on this it's a nice place to be because I'm able to say I this is how I put it like my passion for jiu-jitsu now is I'm not you jittery used to be a means to an end proven to myself or to the world for that matter that I could do it right it was a means to an end it was an ego thing yeah dude so now's an end in itself I see digits wasn't good in itself Brian it helps me cope with the world I see the benefit it brings to society it's not something you can quantify which is very sad because we quantify money yeah we quantify Fame right but we don't quantify social success and I think there are a lot of instructors in small gyms in the middle no we're in Brazil and around the world who are doing a lot of social good it's just you just can't quantify it so you don't there's no but this this is because you know going back to what you're saying we there are aspects of character building and martial arts that I think I feel that we're missing out on and that's one thing you gotta love about the Japanese cuz they take that so seriously yeah it's so important to them and it reflects on the nation like when you look and you know how you know Japanese look at judo and how they behave on the mats it's an expression of who they are as a people it's not just on the mat that they're like that it really is a reflex of them as as a culture I wish we were more like that I wish things like honor and respect meant something in the 21st century to Millennials it doesn't the reality is it's like I mean you bring this up to like torch one you know they looks at you like a crazy thing like what you're talking about you know and it's sad because I think we're missing out on some of the most important lessons that martial arts has to teach I hope that changes that people get like I hope like that like this young this next generation of grapplers that are like obsessed with like being Conor McGregor and they have to be loud and you know talk I think that one day they're gonna snap out of it I hope they do but if this is a trend and that is reinforced in the future and doesn't stop I think that jiu-jitsu is gonna turn into something that I don't know it's not something that I mean there's a part of doesn't wanna be part of it cuz it's so it's so alien to me it's so different from what I have learned and what I believe in and I think that eventually that's it's gonna go soon in my might wear out and people gonna get tired of it but people are missing out on that man I'm like there's some there's a lot of value to jiu-jitsu that people there are way outside the metal on the technique yeah a hundred percent you know that guy to me what I pose to people a question there's a black bear yourself how much money would I have to pay you to take away that black belt from you oh there's a nucleant payment exactly so you can my experience what I've lived there's no money you can give me exactly it's a priceless thing that's why you can't quantify I didn't interested I've never thought about that yeah like how much money would you have to give you to give away my block on my digits experience because right now if you strip that from me I'm I'm dead I know I know I'm totally different person ya know so it's part of your identity of who you are because you know for me like I didn't start like I I came to be a man so to speak when I started wrestling wrestling's the first true martial art like I got into and it showed me the virtues of hard work discipline respect you know humility and I carried those everywhere I go in life you know when I do stuff at work I and my relationship so he said it transcends everything yes I've always carried that with me and my brother and I when we teach and all that we always do let me Jim I mean we just actually promoted one of our black belts something to black belt after 15 years he's our ninth black belt that we've produced and there's a lot of people that could have been black those at that time but we're very selective and like who we put to be a black belt because again like you said it's a reflection of your character and you know the problem now is that with social media respect doesn't really sell headlines in any man yeah even like beneil dariush I think I butchered his name I know you're talking about yeah he just wand and the juicy fight he called out kimura chat so thank you you did a nice chemo trap to half guard that reverse triangle switch to an armbar but he had spoke afterwards in the press conference talking about how he's gonna be an example of respect and the martial arts he's not gonna be doing the call-outs and all that cost him millions he just gave my respectful yeah because if you're willing to sacrifice millions of dollars for doing the right thing you're a true hero yeah you're a hero I'm not the one who throws crawlies that you know windows and the special cellphones that's that's I don't care I don't care how much you win on money it's it's not you you my respect me to some other people look up to him you're not gonna get mine I'll respect to khabib to the world you know keep your head down and work exactly but you said because talking a lot doesn't really it makes you money but you're not sacrificing that's easy to do and especially in today's environment I know but we've talked about this I feel a sense of bad example for everybody it does and it's now people look like like that guy who commented to me and everybody agreeing with them all you know black boxers means you're good does it mean that you're attaching these other things I have nothing to do with it yeah and there's there's arguments to be made again so like somebody went a debate with me saying that you know the samurai code which a lot of the martial arts you know respect cultures based off of was an interpretation of somebody's romanticization of samurai culture yeah which didn't exist maybe it maybe it didn't but to say that we don't practice up to the martial arts now is awesome bogus so like yeah the origins if it to me doesn't really matter especially like a lot be able to realize where I made my shorts big in the States or movies yeah Bruce Lee especially Karate Kid you know those things influenced a lot of parents hey yeah I want my kid to I think it helped but like you know judo was booming in the 50s already like I think people saw in martial arts and means of Education and I think that Hollywood movies definitely you know brought us to embrace it was definitely good like the UFC was to them like I have a job because of the UFC you know like and then there's knows no doubt about that but at some point you know we got to balance out that that marketing with values right you know I think those earlier movies they were pushing values right loosely yeah he was a good kid movies they were good role models yeah right now who's the major vehicle pushing it you have see all these fight things and now the fight culture you know you know here in Vegas is it's very non-virtue based yeah it's more about like who's the biggest yeah who attracts the most attention so now that's gay in the most marketing so now it's a school what are you trying to push no I mean are you trying to push oh you're gonna be Billy badass and you know be a UFC champ one day or are you gonna push like the real characters you know but you know I guess I think parents are still always gonna appeal to the character argument because they're coming to bring their kids that you said for discipline right like if I look at a lot of my fighters most of them don't have a father figure there's a lot of that yeah that's a very common thing roars I noticed that it's because they like the structure in their life right so like it's not a surprise to me right that occurs because a lot of you know a lot your students look up to you as a father figure like yeah we have that responsibility I think that's something that a lot of people that are you know not even if you not just if you have in school but if you're you know a public figure in the martial arts world you have a lot of responsibility because you have a lot of teenagers look up to you and going back to you were saying about parents it's a very good point I think in the giorgia parents bring their kids and because they believe in values and would like the children below that but I feel like change there too there's a lot of parents that bring their kids in they want their kids to be superstars and they talk and they treat their children like superstars like I'm not gonna I mean I've had those students like these I've seen those are parents are really pushing their social media they're treating them like they're rock stars it's almost like that our child celebrity thing like when you're like you know eight years old and you know make it big in a movie everyone knows who you are and by the time you're 19 you're overdosing on heroin I feel like that's what's gonna happen some of these kids it's like you guys are getting way too much attention way too soon yeah this can't be healthy long term and I really believe that it's going to harm these kids their development that down the road because like some of these parents who want their kids to be you know Superstars and and their living that are life I carry through their children which is very sad in itself yeah you know there's a lot of pressures on these parents but like I didn't make you but you're a continuation of me because how we see our children right you know if you have a kid you see it's it's an expression of you it's it's a continuation of your for sure is it literally if you're genetics like so like okay I didn't do it but you will and I see that in a lot of parents and it's such a sad thing and I hope that you know most of them will snap out of it and go like more important than my child being rich and famous is that they're decent human beings and they're good you know social role models and they actually they're enriching that that so this the world in a way that can't be quantified and you're not gonna be rewarded for it but because it's in a good in itself I hope that most parents can see that my suspicion is that it's getting worse and worse and people see that lesson was and it's all about the immediate return yeah I mean the social media thing you know we talked a little bit with Kevin on that it is a whole you remember lose like they can't even grasp like how much has changed so quickly I'm still digesting it look at like Kylie Jenner they just said no she's like a youngest billionaire or whatnot from what we're just insane it's insane from what what's her skill apparently she still don't know what her skills marketing you know hard level because she apparently made her own makeup line it was a I asked my girlfriend I was a chemist I'm not ready for that it's a lip liner type thing but the marketing of it allowed her and of course you're saying she piggybacked off the Kardashian Fame wisely but manly to make a billion dollars that that young is insane but that's all social media you know so like everybody now has a vessel to be that famous you know which is crazy because in a way it's kind of cool you know because to do have that type of media power like a 50 years ago 20 years ago you're excited good yeah yeah not a Rockefeller in the world kinda made some connections now just by the virtue of having good content or at least continent whatever the hell that means yeah whatever that means you can pull in a giant audience you know like I tell always tell the players make social media your priority because you don't need to be like a adapted okay moving forward realistically I'm not talking are Short's I'm gonna talk to my human civilization is it realistic that everyone's a rock star and everyone makes money from famous for being famous like you realize that we losing our skills like we don't know how to do anything like what is this what's her name again that the Jenner whatever whatever it might be what does she know how to do realistically oh it's a different world it's I know and it's it's it's it's a strange world because you getting people are being rewarded for not knowing how to do anything you know I did really don't have any skills you know like people talking about like Tony Robbins I'm like are we talking about what does he know about business oh it's gonna increase your business at 100% he's never ran a business how what do you know and I'm watching these guys and like everyone you don't watch that movie the documentary fire festival it's do I feel like we're living the fire festival era everything is just like image projection and like there's no depth to anything there's no background there's no like infrastructure everyone's just like no incredible marketing and branding it was beautiful I wanted to go to the fire festival right and then you know you need to dig this deep but it's like there's nothing there like there's no foundation and I felt like it was a middle school project gone wrong marketing of brilliant marketing and that's a thing what I always mark ax ting gets a bad rap again I do marketing miss yeah so marketing gets a bad rap because it can be used as a tool for great creation or massive distress and neutral work yeah it goes both ways yeah you know so it just depends on who's wielding this weapon yeah right but usually people remember what hurts more than what helps and a lot of people use marketing for scams and you know that fire festival thing is a great example if man like if you guys haven't watched why check it out I don't think they knew that they were [ __ ] I think they really I think they didn't never did too intuitive like you're gonna bring like I don't even how many thousand people have professed a little and not bother with like toilets yeah you know is like it's just as long as it looks pretty as long as the label is well done who cares about what's inside right they were trying to salvage something but it's like they bit off way more than they could chew you know and they never really like instead of like all right we gotta scale down now they kept trying to blow it up more while trying to patch things up on the back end and there's the over I think social media has projected successful people as being very confident in driven people so people think that confidence is the most important thing as long as I believe that I'm gonna do it is like that and I've I've dealt with a lot of like young business entrepreneurs and recently and there's they're very confident like no we're gonna do this we're gonna do this we're gonna do this and they're like really are you that's pretty ambitious I there's zero backing it's just but people have gone on to believe that if I believe I can do something that's all that matter well that's great they believe that's step one okay but there's a whole structure you know that comes behind that to back it up and like you know that I'm gonna get it I'm gonna get it that kind of mentality with no skill to actual skill to back it up or sometimes work ethic yeah you know and I feel like you know going back to BJJ or martial arts for that matter I think there's a lot of that going on there's a lot of like blah blah blah talk talk talk and then when it comes down to it like I would love to have the time to do statistics on jujitsu Dave it's like with Torino man one day I'm gonna have to sit down because like I think that if you actually did statistics on what's working what's not who's winning who's not like the picture we would have a BJJ I'm convinced it's a very different one that is being projected onto the world like if people stuck to like you would see that the techniques are working or not the most popular ones yeah if you look at the people who are winning they're not the loudest ones that people are talking a lot or not really doing that great I think there's a lot of that but and then this is the downside of marketing because it really distorts reality it can't it has the potential I mean it has a good side to it but like it does this store right because now you you're trying to eat really what you're doing is convincing people that okay this is really awesome when in fact it's research because behind any marketing campaign the other day the content has to stand because I can sell you know I used to an Eskimo but eventually they have to get the yeah products got a you know it's gotta stand up to test if you just believe all the hype yeah you're gonna get suckered all day long yeah I mean especially nowadays any get sucker 24/7 you know so you got to be able to do the research look into the content it's so hard they're like I cuz you know you guys I'm doing this research and a history of jiu-jitsu and I get why people don't want to look into it holy cow man it's a lot it's dense right people get really there's too much information in the world if I fake news works that's why my you like some of these like social media works so well because it's like it's a quick 30 second snippet and you know he's supposed to understand the topic in like one you know you know we keep here remember I got in a fight with my my ex she read half a Wikipedia article and she was arguing me on a topic that I happen to know a lot of worry a lot about I'm like and you read half a Wikipedia article shut up but that's how we are we to learning that would because there's so much information and doing your research you're right everyone should do their research that way people are third by anybody who wants to author it annual there's nobody who's like I remember because somebody deleted my brothers Wikipedia and like he had no basis on doing it you know because they have essentially people volunteered to write these articles or it's supposed to be Democrat it's a great idea but I some of it is yes example bear once faked because I guess here saying elephants in the Africa were on the decline yeah and then he had people like oh I want you guys to author to say they're on the rise and sure enough they did funny story though it turns out like five years later they did jump on the rise and then he took credit for yeah like anybody can write anything so yeah you can't use Wikipedia because I I mean I know how bogus Wikipedia can be I use it all the time though like I mean I feel like with controversial topics there are like you know part of contemporary debate they will be far more contentious all right but if it's something regarding your manual [ __ ] probably not a lot they yeah I mean I see some but like I think they're just probably less but if you're gonna talk about like a hot topic you know in politics today I'm sure it's getting edited that'd be five minutes you know so it's just one of those things I some things are more trustworthy than others I feel like history and there was this general Thomas maintain your mother last name but he was actually supposedly the best Civil War general but nobody's ever heard of him yeah I totally believe that no yes grant but this guy can t brother forgot his nickname was slow trot yeah because he liked to try to his horse of slow error and he apparently he never lost a battle this ever work and he had minimal casualties all those soldiers loved him but there was a lot of political strife with him yeah because he was a southerner in the Union yeah so it create a lot of friction but a long story short history kind of wrote him off ya know because of that so like even history like all the written books and you know I think you're right yeah yeah they can but your stuff so I always I'll be like what I look for out of history is to try to figure out the morals of a story like or like there's kind of ladders and behaviors at people because all the facts I mean we're talking about stuff sometimes thousands of years all the hundreds of year old it's a very difficult pinpoint have you ever played the telephone game yes a lot of that going on even like primary sources we deal with this like it can be difficult because they can be very biased you know JJ has true case in point like there's a lot of biases going on yes history is very difficult because of that that's your right that's a good way of looking and like what can we learn from World War two are the things that we're gonna agree and disagree on like you know and we can talk about at length but there's some overall lessons surprisingly people don't seem to learn like I feel like we could bake in the same mistakes over they might is ever gonna end I would like you might be beautiful one day the discipline of history we're no longer necessary because people just finally learned their lessons and I thought that's what a historian does is like remind people like hey guys this is we've been down this road before we've seen what happens let's not do that again but people forget very easily and they tend to you know think same paths do it all over again it is very disappointing you know as a historian sometimes I guys want to pull my hair down like and I'm watching some developments in the world don't like guys we've seen this before this is not new you know sometimes not even that long ago but doing research is is difficult like I wish people took the time but it is it is very time-consuming and people can't always distinguish between like also between a good source and bad sources like literally Google has become reality whatever Google so you google it if it comes up in the first page it's true like very few people can like okay this is you know something that's peer-reviewed versus this is something that is like something from teenagers blog even with the martial arts as well I see some people teaching techniques yeah you know and they might have good SEO or they might just show up on your service oh yeah and they're garbage yeah you know like I've even seen like now like of course I'm very into Mikey more stuff and I look up and I sometimes I see people tagging Kim or entrap or they even I saw an instructional DVD showing a Kim Wong and on the cover they're doing it wrong like some fundamental things that grab the Gecko and I'm like man there's a police like it for the interesting thing is that no one takes martial arts that seriously because if you're a doctor and you're you know you're selling that you're a brain surgeon you advertise yourself the brain sir yeah but you're not you go to prison like someone's if you try to perform brain surgery on someone you're not qualified really they're like of a turn Aryan or something or a nurse and you try to you probably go to prison right like police will come like oh you're not qualified yeah there's none of that in jiu-jitsu you could literally like if you want to make some money and you're a good bullshitter I'll give you some advice to put a black belt on they'll have the train just talk a talk you know you know if you're good at talking like that's literally what it takes these days man like if you good at talking you becoming jiu-jitsu expert you don't have to be a teacher so you don't have to train all you got to do is talk and if you speak well enough people are gonna believe you look them in the eye you speak with confidence you tell them exactly what they want to hear and that's where cult leaders and con artists thrive they're really good and there's so much of that martial arts world I think I'm like very sensitive to this cuz I got it to my own detriment I got like an eye you know just spot bullshitters in martial arts I could spot a fraud from a mile away and I'm I'm right a hundred percent of the time and it's it's almost like one law says I wish I weren't like that because it probably do less painful to watch these people thrive it's like I know you're a hoax man I know it I know you've never trained of your life it's funny my ex my brother now he's actually writing her a little ebook guide because one of our students he was leaving he said I need to train you know do you know anybody at this state I don't let me give you some pointers and what to look out for because he said a lot of people are full of crap and the worst thing is when you're starting off in the martial arts you don't really know who's legit was not it takes years yeah yeah and especially if you're in the bubble because you're just in this one thing you're like oh I remember when I was training you could know and we're all the guys a nice guy it just wasn't what combat specific you know martial arts was more the art form right so me and my brother were we trained for a year we're doing private lessons you know we came in like five times a week he thought we were you know the best stuff on the world and then we sparred my brother had a girlfriend who was a Taekwondo black male and a family of black belts like oh you should come spar with us one day oh yeah we'll go and kick your guys asses got their thinking white lips my brother got humiliated he was spying this 50 year old back got step sidekick into a wall dropped and then a painting from a table movies girlfriend you know and their marriage and the whole family [ __ ] this we're done with this we're gonna wrestle yeah so we started wrestling after that but it means yeah it took us getting outside the mobile yet it busted maybe you know and and the interesting thing is about this is that you know if you're in the bubble you're you may be in the bubble for years before you realized Apple but by then you're so part of the you've created social ties to that group even if you realize your instructors of fraud and everyone around you is a fraud and then the real people are in the gym across the street you're the social ties will keep you there cuz now you feel like attached correct and there's and this what is something good like I think that's an even if you're on a fraud like I think I still believe you can create a good social environment which is also important but at the same time it kills me to see like legitimate BJJ masters struggling financially and to see people who I've barely trained their whole lives like killing it like it just it's so unjust and there's also much of that going on he would always realize but there's so much of that going on and I always was everywhere you know like it's like the movie evidencing the golden child Murphy sure they have a child that represents each virtue yeah and then it says the golden child just has died hundreds of years ago you know unfortunately your skill level does not equate your success level yes yeah just world you know you're the best at something then everybody should recognize you and then benefit from your skill you know but it doesn't work that way unfortunately that's where marketing takes precedence yeah I should know about you are gonna be the ones you're gonna be able to find you so like it's not only that you have to be great at something you also have to have the marketing behind it so that everybody can provide you know this is where otherwise you're the silent there the tree that fell in the forest I'm sure the killers out there's this one guy we interview for our documentary he has had I think he has something like 500 children training under underprivileged children Wow like something we'd ridiculous like that like it's a huge number they're all like poor from the slums and I'm going that guy's a BJJ hero like exclu Lee yeah like truly I don't ok he doesn't have a little title but like this guy has had a far more significant impact in the world than a Conor McGregor in my opinion because I Connor was just like okay everyone knows who he is but hasn't done anything positive I don't know maybe donate this money to charity but this guy is actually helping people this guy should I and it made me almost like like ponder in my own like jiu-jitsu life like has I've ever really done anything significant juice oh okay I got some medals but I feel like that guy is that for more than I have you know in its people from a bad place and helping them out I definitely more virtuous thing you know getting a stud and then okay now I'm just gonna take you one level up yappers is pulling you from the earth raising you to it's healing alright so I always found that you know as an instructor it's always best to help the person who is the most neglected right like the guy who is clumsy with two left feet nobody wants to teach that guy he's the guy that can get the most value I'll never say everyone wants everyone wants to in Brazil there's a saying like don't the one who lost you feel it will need everyone wants to the pretty child everyone likes a pretty child you know and then the ugly duckling I get everyone's kind of like oh let's not train this guy's not very talented and I've always taken pleasure in seeing those people who are in talented grow because they're never gonna win a World Championship but you bring them to the you know higher level and you know I've got I have a problems with students like that in the past because I make an effort it's intentional to spread my attention equally amongst my students and I probably err like I don't think I've always been you know you do have I go I like this person more than that person you end up coaching you know this person more than that person but I make an effort not to and as a result of I think I've had I managed to create a bigger student base there are people that are loyal to me because the end of the day that guy is quiet and doesn't demand attention he notices ya that you give him attention sure those people notice more than anybody else do it they're not you and they're like oh man like Rob I could being really and I really make an effort to be treated exactly the same I treat the guy who's super talented yes which isn't always you know causes problems because you know the better you are the more attention you expect expect yeah oh and I'm like no you've got this far be you know me treating you this way you know if they didn't broke don't fix it like why do you need attention now I think it's funny if you wanted they're doing well well well and then they maybe make it right they win a world title or something no I got to change I got you know it worked this far man like what's the problem that's the thing that you know has happened to me a few times in the beginning you know we had guys that were really good we got them to the next level and then it was like you said I got to change stuff I was like yeah you said like it makes no sense it's like if you are in business and you weren't investing with service talking was gonna say you know what now I'm gonna I gotta stop the stock is not working let's go the numbers are up and we keep going up you know this starts to dip then okay maybe now we got it up years you know so like I've never got that you know of course you see it all the time you know if you're doing good was it one coach don't switch you know like you're learning keep staying on the course you know if he starts neglecting you or things start going south and you start taking it down turn your career then okay maybe we need to evaluate what's going on you know and maybe if the coach is the problem okay you got a switch but like it's rarely that you know I mean like if say if a coach was able to take you from zero to a hundred or at zero to fifty he can keep taking you higher right so there's usually other variables that are you know I there's like the whole and it comes down one thing a problem my most common theme in my class and I talk about all the time it's it's I come how do you put it self awareness you know like accountability like you lost you lost you you lost that was you that was not the weather not the the rules all the rules that's why I lost no you lost oh the ref made a mistake or was my coach like everyone's gotten it's like man stop it stop that's not how you get better I guess the best advice I can give people if you don't want to hear it because it's not it's not the story that they that makes them feel good right it makes them feel like crap so they go I don't want to hear that I want to feel good but it really comes down to that progress in anything you do has to do with accountability for sure and it you got to be hard on yourself and it sucks because it's painful like you lost and you know look at yourself in the mirror and going I made this mistaken that mistake and I didn't train hard enough and I wasn't intelligent enough my diet wasn't sharp like I always tell my students is ask yourself did you do a hundred percent of what was possible for you to win and the answer is always no I haven't liked and I don't think there's been single tournament where I did a hundred percent of why I could have been there's always room for improvement are you are you so what why are you talking about the referee man why are you even talking about your coach and your training partners and the your girlfriend stop it man and when I see people like that even when they're very talented I go it's not gonna make it I already know because every person who does well and anything they do in life I truly believe this they have one thing in common and when they mess up they blame themselves for sure I always tell people taking full accountability for everything you do is empowering yeah alright because that also means you have the ability to fix it yeah when I start blaming everybody else I lose control right oh the referee cost me loss well I can't do anything about that no need to improve right you know it's not like take responsibility for everything you have you know the high level accountability now you also have a high level of power right but people will shy away from them right they I think a lot of the problem is just ego you know we have one thing I was telling my girlfriend about because we're talking about home schooling and all that I think one thing in modern society is that failure is seen as I caused stigma you know like all of you if you got a bad grade in the test yeah like you and your parents get mad at Yelich and all that like it shouldn't be that way right because in real life you love your failures yeah in real life failure is gonna happen and you don't have to learn from it you know but it seems like our schools and modern education is kind of institutionalized to sort of give you like always pass never fail and don't take big chances just to go on this like steady path that's easy to to manage but you're not gonna get big results of that I mean that's you know in real life you have to take big chances every so often calculated risks sometimes they work sometimes they don't they don't work you just fix yourself up keep going you know but when you're very risk-averse it's hard to get anything done you know and if you're gonna be competitor it's high risk I think Kip color used to do that speech and every night he'd go that it happened that people don't want to lose in the first match yeah so like I don't be worried about it you know it's gonna happen it's a there's a Nietzsche would say something about it called out more fatty like the love of faith so you should love your losses because your losses are really not losses they're empowering that's how you learn you get better by only embracing that the embrace the pain you know yeah and that's what martial arts is all about that's what improvement is all about is embracing the hardship like there's a correlation between hardship and growth not only in the inner but think I'm in the gym the harder you lift the heavier you left or the hardiest sprint the bigger these physical improvement right yeah that goes for everything you do man the more you struggle the more you grow and you know in the gen you know when people want a quick reward they I think they miss out the on the true on the true valuable lesson do you hear about that guy that got injured in the tournament and he's suing his instructor for the injury he's suing his instructor I never great god Bless America and it was an America it wasn't here it was in Canada of course the school had him sign waivers and the tournament had a sign waivers but he sued the instructor I guess for not preparing him properly or because he had to he was a heavyweight and he was fighting I guess somebody even bigger than him he was like 240 pounds allegedly I'm not sure yeah I sue you too I guess he said that he wasn't aware that was gonna happen and then he got hurt he hurt his knee or something and the courts are allowing the case to continue they didn't throw it out even sometimes like I I'm a big advocate of the judicial system it's not perfect it's the best we have but sometimes like you hear stuff like this is like I'm less or something we're missing but it's crazy to me like if I'm a judge I just looking to get the hell out of here we got an important [ __ ] to worry we got some ones like murder cases here man like a sub wasting our time and money I would sue my coaches every time I die soon people for getting injured I get so the pressure you know I get really you know getting a new tooth now you know I was a lot of fun man I think yeah I guess we could recap real quick giver says no key I think it's a stalemate yeah like it's it's it's not it's I my take on it is like what is that you like I've gone through phases one thing I like about the guys I take for their more options yeah it is more less active you know I always recommend training with both I don't think that one hurts the other I think they enforce one another well that being said I don't think that you know if you only train ghee if you only train nogi but you have to train to get to be a champion and you know an ADC see you for example you've seen people succeed and yeah the ATCC world is very BJJ oriented I don't honestly man um makes you happy it's most important thing man you enjoying it have fun with it that's what it comes down to but yeah right there with you I don't have anything against the ghee it's just I don't like using yeah personally they I've done it a few times I always get oversized keys when they lend them to me though yeah I mean I guess my whole stance on it is just that if you're gonna be a MMA guy or you're gonna be priming the og guy I don't think it's important that you training the ghee if you want to go ahead and say you said definitely better than running or something like that okay man so in that sense there's a different form of training job yeah why not you know so you over the place but I hope you guys in joyed hope you guys have fun this is episode 3 episode 4 coming up soon all right see you guys next time [Music]