BTG 07 - Return of the Grappler

[Music] hey what's going on everybody David Avalon here with Robert Drysdale for the seventh episode of breaking the guard what's going on rod not much same old Dave lots of work lots of teaching of the Traveling living the living the life yeah you were just in Chicago I was a Chicago which got back to seminar Aston was out there with then hardened concrete oh no damn like trains with me out here in Vegas and instead of school Chicago he comes to Vegas all the time to train with me I should keep some Fritos like old friend of my old training partner we go way back it's nice to see him oh he's uh I think uh mutual friend Ron German was there - yeah it's wrong better that's right wrong was that Costa Rica wrong that guy it's Morris kinda Jitsu he's got it all figured out very cool well I know we wanted to take some time they talk about the UFC that just passed in particular with khabib nurmagomedov really good BBC it's a hobby eh is like they're like a strike the French are you know yeah but uh the surname and you killed it I'm like mom I'm a dog yeah and then that's emporia spoiler if you haven't seen it it's coming in three two one Kabhi one again rear naked choke or sure choke I think right it was a short choke third round and once they get another dominant victory where he just pretty much had his way and this is gonna be I know I I mean if you've been listening to our podcast for a while if you like listening to be commentating I say this a lot but I'm such a big fan of wrestling for fighting in general not just scrapping I think that's like the key decisive factor and so many grand matches these days you know there's this hyper focus on these things that to me like if you have a really dominant wrestling game and a solid back attack that's those are the two most important things you know I think for MMA even for a DCCC good I mean I had a big to skillsets to be incredible I'd be like takedowns at back attack everything else I feel you can go without my message they're not important but like guys like khabib they keep they I think they reinforced that because he's got that it's a style that was to some extent almost like dead in anime ya know and he brought it back and we're gonna five ones some theories why it died out and then you know maybe you can jump in and like you don't give your positions but I think that uh it has to do with the fact that you know you either had these BJJ guys who sucked at wrestling or you had these wrestlers who sucked on the ground and when I mean sucked okay you can hold top position close guard doing this right here like some [ __ ] punches but that's not very efficient ground game like the very few of them were actually looking to pass and finish so you guys have one or the other and rarely do you have guys actually do both you know I think that's what could be bit self yeah no kabhi this does he have a [ __ ] background I'm not sure I want to say yes I think combat [ __ ] I mean everyone in dagestan Russell's if you don't wrestle against Annie yes and probably have no friends yeah it's the kind of thing like anything in Brazil if you don't play soccer you don't have a childhood like you don't have friends no one talks to you you know imagine in dagestan to be similarly if you don't wrestles like what do you do then yeah you know so the everyone wrestles there but I remember like one of the first time I've heard of Cub you he was he went the UFC wins and he had a t-shirt on that said if somebody would be called jiu-jitsu did you remember yeah yeah yeah that went viral evocative yeah yeah but uh I mean he's making it work like you say he's got a good mix of ground skills ironic just ironically went with chokes and that's it chokes are illegal and stumble but uh I didn't know that yeah that joking that's fine no he's just I think they had a clip of him tapping out Leo Vera with that Darce choke and trainee and they were making a big deal of that too they go he's obviously very good in the ground and I believe like forty plus now it's a radius training like they're very different things but like no doubt he's a very skilled grappler yeah and uh I I kind of like this because you know it's been trending for a while at least an MMA where it's the striker wrestler yeah prototype right where essentially you just striking the whole time yeah and you're using your wrestling just to negate the ground the ground or to stay on top and do nothing you know like and now we're seeing khabib at least in the lightweight error he's bringing back just a pure grappling game playing using just enough striking to make you keep your hands up to set up this you know and you see the guys and I've always said this like my lot of my BJJ friends they did they don't like it when I say this because there's nothing dislike if you're if you go way back in the history of MMA there's always in this rivalry between BJJ and wrestling now less so when I started training like Mark Coleman versus BJJ I remember those like those the hammer house guys they're just like the guys from carlson gracie there's a huge rivalry there right and i I'm more like I'm not wanting to pick teams on more one to go like what is actually happening and what is happening there and I think that wrestling is such a solid foundation for fighting you know not only I mean there's a number of factors are going played I think I've mentioned this in previous podcast but one of them is the fact there's a selection process that goes on in Middle School in high school United States and then in college you end up with the best athletes yeah that's the election process does not occur and BJJ the same way because it's all privately funded so I mean if you you're able to pay you can stay the gym long enough you get good but you don't always necessarily end up with the best athletes on top of that wrestling is a sport that is over is hundreds of years old yeah this is a very new sport comparison so methodology of training is like it's it's still catching up right but like when it comes to like MMA rules like the way the judges scored if you're on top it doesn't really matter if you're actually doing much the simple fact that you're on top you're winning generally speed on the guy on top is way in the fight but that's such an enormous advantage because I know Joel we're gonna set this a million times but you get to dictate where the fight takes place for sure the dominant wrestler and that is such an important component of fighting because if your opponent sucks a strike and you can keep it up and if he sucks on the ground you can take him down exactly it wrestling's like the bridge to it by itself it doesn't really do that much with the exception of getting a slam TKO which is where it does happen but it's real but for the most part it connects to another art all right so essentially you're wrestling [ __ ] with your striking to keep you on your feet or with your grappling to take you out ground you know so like their early ufc's we sold wrestlers using ground pound and it wasn't really a clean granite pound either but it was just that's all they had you know not like you're saying we got khabib who's got the the wrestling and he's got the groundwork yeah so he's got two solid game plans and just enough striking to keep himself safe from the feet yeah get him to the ground you know and I think the current rules for MMA at least in the US favor the what you were talking about which is to take down back attack yeah style right kind of like getting a DCC how like we talked about that were they were never a turtle it's no points so you're gonna find people turning a lot and a lot of back attacks as a consequence yeah and the UFC is kind of similar in the sense that there's no when someone's turtled you can to soccer kicks you know so I think and you can't hit the back of the head so it's made to be a safer spot than being mounted yes right and only that people want to stand up yes pearly like and I called it I caught the knucklehead and I make coaches like oh you hit the ground step back up step back up meaning like don't worry just so you don't need any of this all you gotta do is stand back up and they're fine and there are coaches who's just a curriculum if they had when literally is just standing back up they don't even know how to do it like I remember I was training me when they try to stand back up I'm like oh thank you because that's when they're giving me the back yeah you know edenia my I made a career out of this like if you look at the guys name you actually played guard with them they did better and the guys were trying to stand back up because those guys were getting their backs taken because sure like if you know how to take them back and your opponent does not know how to stand back up which most of them don't they give the back a lot so for a grappler it's like thank you so much I think that's one reason why could be big cells because he does that he catches people on the fence on the back because they're trying to stand that cup but they don't know I mean it's happen is it does they don't know how to do it but like they're not doing it as efficiently as they could is what I'm saying there's a better way of standing back I'm sure without exposing the back and that's where a lot of these guys because they have that sort of mentality where they go stand back up at any cost almost like panicking stand back up instead of corn how about you learn a little bit about the ground learn how to defend yourself learn how to attack off your back and then standing back ups gonna be a lot easier and safer for sure if very few people can say they they know how to do that no you know I try to and we have worked with a lot of people from all over the place and I'm a gyms and the ground work is always disappointed me and I'm not talking about like regular people that I'm about UFC athletes so people Fred in Bellator and I see that groundwork hammock it would be to me like a football player that doesn't know all the rules it's like how are you doing this for a living as a professional and you haven't taken the time to invest in yourself to learn all the positions I'm not saying that you say you don't have to be an expert everywhere but I mean you should know it like fundamentals I shouldn't be able to go up to somebody who's a UFC fighter and show them a basic triangle escape and blow their mind away no no it gets worse man like I I've worked with a lot of these guys and it's so difficult to to or and it goes back to things I was saying like wrestling is such a dominant foundation such a good eye I think probably heresy in BJJ circles but like I think wrestling is the most important foundation one comes from MA if you have to pick a skill set to have like as a foundation I think it's wrestling for sure and then everything and and I've always believed also that the best crappers were going to be the wrestlers that took the time to learn - Jitsu which you think would be the majority but from my experience or a very small minority yeah they most of them I think that this is an ego thing like I don't there's a lot of that you know I've worked with a lot of wrestlers that they just feel like they don't want to start over yeah they don't want to be in the bottom of the totem pole working their way up and they feel like I just gotta be a little better wrestling and then like the second they get out of a triangle or you can no longer tap from close guard and their heads this is the math and it's like it's I don't think people think these things - do they make decisions and life decisions they don't really think these things through but if I'm on top of you in closed guard and you can't do anything to me that means I beat you in a fight if I can beat you in a fight I have nothing to learn from you and therefore I don't know I don't need you just I'm good yeah and if I can get that's kind of the math in their head like I can get out of a triangle well I'm not getting caught in the triangle I'm good to go I am ready for the UFC needs to play something you just because you're getting out of a triangle doesn't see a thing about your jujitsu skills it means nothing you know it means that you're not getting caught in triangles and you're hard to tap or congratulations there's a million other things you could be learning how to do that you don't necessarily learn how to do khabib went back he's one guy that actually put the time into assimilating aspects of submission wrestling I got cause some words whatever but submissions yeah into his wrestling you see other guys that have done that successful I think been asked as one example he'd spit because there's someone that puts people away there's an effort there like let's learn how to move forward I've worked with a lot of wrestlers over me a lot of them just don't want to learn anything they maybe want to learn a Kimura or a guillotine or something like that but it's hard to teach because there's there's resistance and I think that that what is behind that resistance it's pride more than anything it's you know it's like I don't need I don't need this I'm just going to stand back up you can't hold me down therefore I can be unified you can't teach me and I keep saying this like the wrestlers that learn how to submit other ones would sell yeah most definitely you know and the funny thing is they are obviously very complementary skills but like you said the ego gets it especially would be a really good wrestler that tends to come with the ego no and then it's hard for them to move their around yeah and because they're very athletic they can succeed very well in training against most people yeah and then they have a false affirmation like oh like you say I don't need to learn it because I'm already on destroying everybody in training yeah that's great but when you fight a world-class guy it's not gonna be the same it's funny people like that they set this ceiling for themselves and I always hated that like all you know if you can't sweep me therefore I don't need to like how can you know I can't teach me or yeah like they they limit themselves I'm good right I'm like you have to raise the bar if you want to be a UFC champion the bars gotta be raised so high or if there's anyone in the gym you're taking more than a minute to submit you should be upset at yourself and going like I gotta push harder because you you have to imagine the person you're gonna confront in their cage it's gonna be so much better than you in every way shape and form so you're never really comfortable with your skill set oh I'm good I didn't get tap today and there are literally people who are completely okay and nothing this happens in jiu-jitsu all the time no one passed my guard today yeah and they reach their comfort zone they're happy and that translates into the competition too you see it all the time if no one passes their guard they're going it's almost like that that old Helio Gracie mindset of those if I didn't get tap it and lose no you yeah that's mashed you just think it's HAP she's still lost but like people they they set the ceiling for themselves very very low and those are people that never really reach the next level because they're content with with what they've achieved yeah and I think another aspect and the big picture is that when you compete idea is not to be better than everybody else more so better than your last iteration of yourself right so if I'm the world champion and I've been everybody the goal should be how much better can I get Yeah right so like if I have holes in my game that I haven't filled it's like let me start adding these on I think that's why someone like George st. Pierre has remained on top for so long yeah he was able to fight because he kept reinventing himself a little bit John Jones kind of similar he keeps adding parts to his game because if you stayed the same forever you're gonna get beat because people or dies as a champion you're in the top of the hill and everybody gets to see okay he fights like this and when he was put in this situation we can come here and they're gonna start developing that gameplan so if you're stagnant they'll ultimately overcome you just by time I call it the white Bell mentality the white Bell mindset you know and when you walk in the gym and you first starts right this everyone's gonna relate to this you all just don't know anything please teach me everyone like it could be another wipeout with one stripe on his belt and he's showing yourself then you go okay thank you you know it's something happens and the opposite should happen like the more you train the more humble you should become yes I think it should be a humbling experience to be aware of how little you know so as the time goes by you should know less than less there was a minute there that has a blue belt I thought I got it all I got it I got it three half guard sweeps five spider darts and I thought I knew I got so confident on yours but like today I feel like less confidence it's like man there's so much that I don't know because we should be doing is realizing how little you know right is he unlike amazing how little you know but like some people somewhere along the way a lot of people in fact they lose that white Bell mentality and the result of that is that exactly what you're describing they stop progressing they stop learning and as a champion if you want I always admire people like GSP because this is one thing to be a champion is something very different to remain the same for a long time because where do you go from there you've already like it's always like it's not like you're the second and the race if you're behind someone you can actually see the person right in front of you you're chasing that person down but once you're leading what do you really then forward so especially when you finished that line many times already and how do you remain the champion for that long like it's it's an effort of humility and discipline and heart and meaning that is much much deeper than I think people realize and just being oh he's just winning like it's easy to get the belt of my opinion than it is to keep it over the years for sure and then you know statistically we can see that yeah because I don't hold on develop very long for that and I think something happens to their heart once they're there like it's the motivation is not there anymore and something happens and it goes back with your same buddy but a guy like Jesus or anyone who remains a champ for Lacan has to reinvent themselves and that means they're always open to learning and are not not on a superficial way on a very deep way because I superficially everyone's like oh yeah thank you for showing me that even gonna be humble superficially but deep down they're not real I yeah I got this you know versus being wow how little yeah and it definitely takes that to be able to stay on top and again you you always want to keep people on the hill so every time you add a new skill set it's like you just stretch the gap out because if you just stay there people are climbing so every time you learn a new skill keep moving up and keep pulling away from the crowd but like you say it takes a lot of motivation because most people when you're a contender and you're your goals be a champion and you probably don't think that far ahead of that most people wouldn't you know that I just wanna be a champ so you get the strap now you're like oh now what yeah and then you kind of fade a little bit I know like when I was younger I had a goal I was like 17 I wanted to bench 300 pounds I was like 180 all right and uh pinch bands and it took me like five six months and I hit it all right I get hit like three or five and you know what happened I stopped lifting in my mind that was such a far-fetched goal like be a kid magic we hunt about was they bet something up okay and it's funny you say that was like people tell me I'm they dream about being a digits world champion or UFC champ or whatever and I'm like don't be so limited and they look at me isn't that the pinnacle said no the pinnacle is yourself how where is where how much Dave could have you don't know where your limit is exactly and that's the real goal is not the metal because you eat thank you for bringing that and now I never thought of it no so good I never cared about bench pressing yeah but like it does it's it brings it to in a very simple way to describe something is really meaningful about human nature it's like how limited we are ambition is sometimes yeah you could have lifted 400 pounds maybe more had you had the ambition to do that correct but once you set that bar like you know it's not a low ceiling on to say but you set a limit to that ceiling right and then you wake up and you stop lifting and I think that happens to a lot of fighters like that yeah it's because they're thinking you know and I I try to teach people and I try to behave like this I I try to teach them to sit like so when I say the sky's the limit as in like there is no limit you know that's infant like don't ain't the the competition should be against yourself and your own limitations now versus beating the number or letting the belt yeah cuz exactly if you're just trying to be better than yourself you've never done there's always room to work you know so that's I think the safest way of doing it you know yeah for some people it's easier to have a tangible goal though right right that's what I think becoming a champion is physical you know exactly what it requires to be but like you said to say make your the best version of yourself that's not really known alright like because he said that guy benched some evil five a maker then 325 350 360 but I didn't know that getting low limit and like the things you say to yourself are so important you know like they Trump just about everything else I know a similar thing I told myself once he had just it was a CC 2009 got the bronze I fought cyborg in the absolute division beat him and double overtime and my next match was with Nelson and they gave us no break you know it's like I walked off the mat with cyborg right onto the mat Gunny and I was exhausted so I told myself before the match whatever happens I'm not gonna let this match go into overtime I'm gonna finish it in regulation and I was right except I was the one that got finished and the way it happened I think it was a self-sabotage cuz it was 30 seconds left on the clock it was draw yeah you know he was out hustling me but he wasn't able to score I had a couple close submission attempts I was able to finish he shot us brawl I mean he shot into me I sprawled and then I went for a very bad attempt at a Kimora like I just rose and they just flop right over to my back and I forgot about the minus point so my buddy yells at me mine is point so I turtled but it was such a slow turtling they give it to well known that he didn't get the points but he got my back immediately and he sunk a rear naked choke instantaneously so what you're gonna Bobby exhausted yeah point to but like I went so hard to try to finish without being cautious you know because I had put this condition myself the match has to finish but I should have specified that I have to win now that my mind says doesn't go into overtime that I win the match you know so yeah I always tell people that yeah I'd be careful what you tell yourself because your mind takes instructions quite go to the loo brownie I call my so the conversations I have with myself they're programming because they set the narrative how you see yourself and how you see the world and that right there will be the guiding factor and most of your actions will be forward because the truth is you don't think all your decisions the things you say and do a lot of them work like some sort of autopilot like your mind is kind of does its thing yeah all right when you're thinking that the thoughts like how you see yourself on the mats and how you see be yourself behave in front of people and all you see the world these thoughts are there really programming your your behavior for the future so like it's it's kind of cliche so to say this but like you have to die like really guard your thoughts of course like look how what the things you're saying the think you know that's who you are like that's what you become you know and I I had a student of mine I might have told this story already forgive me if I'm repeating myself but I had a student mind result he was very good in the gym like he'd go toe to toe with like the best of dead people the gym that you totally tell with like me and Lucas late you best guys in the gym back in a day and when it came to competing like if he took third it was a good miracle everyone was winning but he was always like losing first second fighting like if he took third like a big deal and he just never really pulled it off and I couldn't quite understand why Wednesday I set him down and I go what was happening man like what's cuz I'm so become more aware of this like that the thought process projects and matches right it's coming more aware of it and he goes or how do you see yourself I asked him how do you see yourself before competition and he's going like what do you mean like what's going on like when you imagine the fight what's happened and he goes oh you know like the guy takes me down and like past my guard and then he Mouse me and a turtle and then he gets my back and finishes me like stop s you're the programmer man later you are that you're writing code or you're thinking of jiu-jitsu that's like that look at it from now on looking at that while you are writing code if that code you are writing is the code of you like not being able to stop a takedown and guess what's gonna happen when that autopilot is turned on yeah you know you're not good you're gonna be unable to stop that takedown it and so I have a thing I do like this is some advice people maybe do the same I always win in my head I never allow myself to lose in my mind and the mind is something so interesting cuz if you go don't think of pink elephants you just did like it so you have to stop yourself from having that negative thought and the way I'll do if I ever catch myself going down that rabbit hole or like I'm going negative in any way shape or form I would just say like oh I'll say stop and I'll just try to recorrect my I should think that the word stop or it could be something I have a friend of mine or varna he says delete delete and he'll just like try to redirect that that thought it's of something and I think that that that heart stop is something I don't know works for me is if I see myself well this guy's taking they stopped and then I would just like go back to where I'm sprawling getting his back and choking him out and I think that a lot of people are losing it has to do with how their program their minds prior to competition for sure you know this is something that I was fortunate I was able to learn early in my sporting career when I was in high school I think I told I had a book wrestle to win and one of the main concepts in there was visualization all right like every world-class athlete that I know uses it when you're describing is of course visualization which is essentially you're creating a false memory right false I like that so the idea is I always tell people that leg up you know did you train yesterday and they're like yeah how do you how can you prove it use it the memory right now so what if we're able to construct our memory and just implant it now what would be the difference I mean besides the physical aspect of moving around mentally it would be the same to the same right so that's the idea behind visualization is to try to implant those memories like matrix style you know now the key just like in the matrix is that it has to be done with as much detail as possible and be believable like if I have a visualization that go I'm gonna train with you and then I'm gonna grab them by the pinky finger and then like Tom and Jerry him around yeah it's a rejected right like that's not ever had that's never gonna happen right but like if I construct my visualization in a believable way to myself which is relative of course depending on your level of confidence then it has a chance at being accepted I mean you subconsciously okay this is something that could happen or maybe it already has happened like whenever I would go on to compete but always try to get to the venue early so I can scout out how the places where I'm gonna warm up where am i sleeping where's the bathroom where I go there the music I'd be listening to the people I'm hanging out with the clothes I'm wearing I try to have everything plotted already and because that's gonna be part of my visualization so when I do that it's not familiar exactly and that's one of those things like I've been here before yeah I've done this before I really finished this guy I swear I swear like people like ask me like I get this question all the time like I don't even like talking about cuz I get that question so much like I was it like finishing more so diversity right and I go in my head I finished him 100 times like an hour before like I was finish it in my head so many times like and I truly believe that these these these visualization droves like they I don't ever like the drill people like drilling like I say some of the repetition people do I some of it is point some of it is useful some of it is point it depends what you mean by drilling but I never did that like I never no one ever taught me to dodge the guilty I just like it's like like me I see them Nicole next time some sticks did that go I'm gonna go for it but a good friend of mine Joey Varner same guy because were having this conversation years ago and he looked at I think of the mine as like a football field right if you walk that same path over and over over crossing like a straight line or a zigzag or whatever what happens to the grass it turns into a trail right and you keep walking that path over those little chairs into trail what happens if you stop walking that path mmm the grass grows back right so that's how you should think of the mind as something that if you're reinforcing certain thoughts that's gonna turn into a trail and eventually into a road so I would see myself like going for certain moves over and over all this helped me a lot in my fights too because if I knew my opponent I know you knew me and I know what his game plan is and you know what my game plan is I know where no man's land is so I call it the middle ground where the fight takes place right where our strengths meet once I know where no man's land is I can start visualizing strategies that will be effective in no-man's land you know so now I can go okay this is what these let me try to do to me this is what I have to encounter and this is the count of the counter so I visualize every single likely scenario in no-man's land a million times in my head when the time comes it's not a trail it's a road yes there's no hesitation you know so um I think that's probably the most important aspect of fighting and the least talked about because it's not simple like and you can't really I mean how do you teach it like it's you can talk about you can't you have to experience it's hard to explain well yeah I think is one of those things that people think fighting is a very from the outside like oh here we talk you memorize then we talk about football players at one point like you're a it's you know football play already has athletic ability their strong or they good fight yeah because people from the outside think Fighting's about physicality but really you know when you in the game a lot you're right it's more mental than anything else and we thought a little bit about the will to win and all that but nobody likes putting in that mental work yeah right like we do it and I'm practicing for our fighters and we'll do it for our students at my gym every so often we'll do like 15 minutes or we'll just go through like mental exercises of what not but most people have a hard time dealing with those they like they kind of already tuned out they like learning the flying armbar or doing like sparring and stuff but when you actually tongue hey put in the mental work take like 30 minutes out of every day and get a journal write down affirmations it's or do like your game plans or do you know a visualization you're like yeah that's a good thing it's a great homework it's yeah it's so it's so hot easy to distract it to this is how it worked for me at least like if I'm not I'm very disciplined some ways and very undisciplined others if you told me Rob you're gonna sit down from 2:00 to 2:30 and do exactly we just right I hope you horrible at it but I get my modes like sometimes it just comes to me sometimes when I'm eating sometimes when I'm like before I go to bed I'll be at the shower and boom I start thinking about judges right and then I go to this these rabbit holes man like I'm gone like I'm not on planet Earth and yeah like I'm so immersed in what I'm doing and it's real man like I've been like visualizing tournaments I was on the verge of tears to celebrate oh so happy it's like [ __ ] I'm just like there's like an experience that I cry I see it I could feel myself having my hand raised and when you can do that that shows that you've made of strong believable yes right like I took people like when I do a visualization my heart starts racing yeah right that means my mind thinks it's real is if it didn't it wouldn't my body wouldn't respond yeah but like I'm seeing a match where everyone goes up yeah hearts pumping I could do like okay this is legit I like the belief woman I love that yeah I'm loved I'm gonna steal that believable memory because yeah and then when the time comes there's no hesitation and only that like I've been here and that metals already mine like I've been determines or like I walk in and I go I'm just it's just protocol yeah this is just like you know III in my mind I've already won like the doubt was entirely removed and I think yeah but visualization is a big part yeah with the wooden analogy I'll steal from use the trails oh yeah that's a very good point it's not just about its doing out Joey Varner he's a good friend of my hope you watch okay yeah thank you yeah because that it's not just doing it once right it's kind of like I tell people who read books like you don't read a book just once I think you've learned it you gotta read it a bunch of times and that's why people read the Bible every sound there every day like you're never done learning a lesson in a book that big you know I mean similarly with the visualization is is that just once something ok did one visualization complete no it's over rotation and over and like you said man you're making that road yeah so that that's the thing you know like and the idea to me is to go out and compete to gain experience is very difficult and dangerous all right every time you go in the cage it's a good chance you're gonna get messed up yeah all right but if I can go on the cage in my mind without taking any physical damage and I I'm not gonna say you get the same ignore the equal benefit of stepping in the cage but you get some maybe instead of a hundred percent and the benefit of experience of walking in there for real maybe it's a twenty percent yeah hey that's 20 percent you wouldn't got otherwise and I could do that a hundred times I could do that every day and you can do it when you're exhausting and overtrained yeah that's the other thing like when I had like I'm over trained like in my mind I was trained I was just doing the mental train you were described in like the homework of thinking the thought process of like of fighting and you know going through the motions and to me that was such a huge aspect of preparing myself because I've always been like I've suffered from fight anxiety my whole life right so it was like I couldn't just compete in my god it's gonna be no big deal I'm like oh yeah that's a big deal man you know and I think sometimes I even harm my career because I was like so hard on myself but you know I think that that the visualization kind of made it easier because sure I've done through like to put the bread the bathtub walk to the bathroom you describing I'd literally visualize that because you know things you're gonna be going through when you go to the terminal I know you know the way in it I visualize all this because what that would do is like when the time comes you're familiar with the situation there's nothing new it blows my mind I lot of my friends would do this I own you never understand this you walk up to them the day of the tournament they go I asked him like so would you know bracken to go I didn't look what to me that's so brave and stupid at the same time yeah the combination of incredibly courageous and incredibly stupid its equivalent of like walking into like a fight with your hands down kind of thing you know it's like what you have no idea where you're going against I would study my opponent's like I mean as much as I want as much information as I could get on my shirt terrified a step in and there not knowing what I'm up against I know some people have different schools of thought like some people like like oh I won't study video because I don't want to psych myself out and there are other people like I'm gonna study everything and I'm gonna create a game plan specifically for this guy I'm kind of leaning towards that side but not so far in that I can't expect that the last version of you is gonna be the one I'm gonna fight yeah because and if I only make a game plan based on that and you come out different I'm screwed because I've prepared for something that it's not there but at the same time not being aware of the dangers or something you gonna face is silly like there's no word in the history of man that the other side I didn't have spies yeah under the horse that's it you need the Intel you need to know what you're doing which is important as warfare it's like the art of words oh but spy yeah you know like you need to know will you're going on so like yeah you do not look at the other side the bracket and figure out what your possible matchups are to me it's being lazy it is lazy now I would say this like first of all I never watch highlights that's my advice never watch highlights because highlights are not real highlight is a highly edited it is not real ignore highlights watch tape on your opponent's you know but I wouldn't do it too close to the competition I do it might be beginning of camp 'litham it's just like you know and then you kind of like you okay watch it once you have an idea of what's coming as you can I mean you can just study the details some people do that respect it but like what I would do is like I do a little bit the beginning and then okay this guy's got a really good spider guard if he gets the last cigar screw door he's got really good foot locks you know hide my feet the whole time and the rest of preparation was like based off of my my knowledge of where no man's land right but you're right like if you keep watching too much you can turn you know like oh my god you Ryder and I tighten all of a sudden like I remember like some of the guys if I watch a highlight shouldn't over like I've seen highlights like oh this guy's such a monster and then I watch the actual footage of him fighting like well yeah drastically different you know every ideas for people movie trailer you've never seen a crappy movie trailer they're all amazing like oh yeah but you realize those are like all the best moments and movies in one minute let's take 90 minutes long and uh it's not really that amazing let's just go all the time you know so yeah highlights like same same way you know like you can't psych yourself out in only watching the amazing stuff he does like for me I don't usually watch any matches I could watch with a guy like you said like once and just okay I know and I might take notes okay he's got good you know inside he'll hook weak take down the fence Pepa ba and then my coach could really dig deep if he needs to write like okay he's gonna then make that analysis alright this is where your week at and he's strong but he's gonna try to exploit and bring you there you know whereas you and I need to pull into this part of the game you know but like I think a lot of the watching taped to comes down to your coach and that's different for BJJ and maybe for every BJJ practitioner out there starts thinking that his coach is supposed to stop his life yeah you know cuz I get that sometimes you nah man like you know people like dropped me like a can you watch you know like 50 fights of my five-year-old son at Naga I'm like you know it's different because of them a you have a guy who is a professionals should be paying you what most of them don't but like they should be paying you well yeah and it's you know it's normal for you to put the time into them preparing for a professional fight in UFC right sure if you're a BJJ coach and you have a hard plus 200 students it is not realistic for you to give them that kind of individual attention because you have so many a and B we don't hear this but like you're not paying them while you're paying off like it's like it's not real do I'm not gonna give you 50 hours a week when you're paying me a hundred bucks a month it's just not realistic yeah um get a private if you really want that exact attention but like your coach is the one that should be ideally you know figuring out let the game plan for you and at least communicate like I'm really invested in max yeah probably bring him on a pasta sometime like it isn't a maker because I really believe in the kid but like you know we communicate like we talk strategy and we visualize fights it's there's there's a dialogue between us when preparing him for fights you know it's not something I don't dictate you know I listed him and I know we have similar vision and that's why it works and I think that's a good relationship between a coach and a fighter is just like the that communication that that functions like feedback yeah you know it's not it's not dictatorial in a lot of ways but it is me coaching him based off of his feedback of how he's you know what is happening on the ground sort of yeah you know because I mean ultimately even when you're coaching it let's say a fighter in the cage everything you're telling him or suggestions you know usually they're good at suggestions but uh the fighter is gonna have the last say that yes I mean so that is a huge problem I think we've talked about this a little bit but like that is the most odd things in anime to me professional sports is that the fighter dictates to the coach what's happening it really is what happen yeah it depends on what you got like I've had some athletes they don't listen to anything yeah and it's super frustrating as a coach you can't help them because you can't help them you know I'm like I thought it's hard to be a coach not a fighter it was fighting you just you get to do it you're in there you don't have to think about anything you just flowing you know but as a coach like you're invested in this guy you don't want him to get hurt you want on the win and you're trying to give him the advice that you believe is gonna make him win and when they're just totally dismissive or they just can't hear you they got their blinders on it's like man I just got a question yeah it's weird uh and it's difficult because I you know I was just talking with max of the day like if I think okay so major in college and wrestling in college right does the wrestling coach care that your girlfriend doesn't like him like no he care if you don't feel like praying today does he care that you don't like to drill does he care that you don't want to work on singles like all these things it's like you care that you don't want a jog or do condition he's like no it tells you to do it shut the [ __ ] up basically right and if you don't like that you get off the rest of team Oh kick you off the team yeah because the coach is paid by the University but because the coach anime is paid by the fighter to fighter like the wife has to like you I'm not making this [ __ ] up but this is important it's not like I'm serious I've seen this happen more times than I can count if the wife doesn't like you you're done like I'm stuff like this shouldn't matter like what the wife thinks but like if she doesn't like you it's it's over and I've seen so many like and fighters because of this dynamic because they hold all the power fighters tend to surround themselves with yes-man which is know very damaging themselves because the yes-man doesn't want to lose his job so whatever you say boss and as a result they bite their tongue if they see something you know and I've had a really hard time coaching people cuz I'm not a yes-man yeah like I'm gonna tell you what I think and I I'm pretty outspoken this regard like I think there's something wrong I'm gonna say them I don't care about your feelings so much I care about you winning yeah you know so it's it's it's it's a difficult thing to do for a coach sometimes to me the coaching relationship essentially it's a mentorship right now if you're gonna be mentored by somebody are you gonna tell them how to mentor you that seems foolish yeah you don't know that's why you're going to contradiction in terms would you think about it yeah the coach how he wants I'm coaching you yeah they give I would say like you know if you're university you don't tell your professor hey professor you need to show it like this like what when you're getting coached you have to have faith like if you don't believe in your coach you're already with the wrong guy you should find a new one find a new one right you should be with somebody that you believe it has your best interests and they know what they're talking about so when they tell you something they say jump you jump that's the relation that's the ideal relationship for their coach or for anybody who's mentoring you as you know I've been in several mentorship relationships meant mentor and if I'm not doing everything that guys tell me to do they quickly turn out you know because they're like well yeah I'm not gonna make much headway with you because you already think you know better than me why why you're here's a shitty thing about it made though they've it's because a lot of these coaches are dependent on a salary they can't afford to turn their backs yes a wrestling coach in college can go eff off yeah if you're a wrestling is you're struggling coach in Las Vegas Nevada or whatever you coach and the fighter tells you I want you to hold path like this you gotta go because he's a customer like he's paying for a service in rally so you know you have to have to cater the customer so it's a very I think I don't think I'm in a fighters a professional fighters you realize how much they are hurting themselves correct by allowing this dynamics take place and that's one reason I move the way I'm just getting back into it but like I come into in the may now as a coach with a very different mindset I don't care if you like my trainer or not if you don't there's the door and I think that once because I'm not dependent on that money to pay my bills yeah so it's a very different dynamic established so now it's like oh it is what it is if you don't like it there you go and I think that is the correct approach right because now I will guide you as the mentor as a coach and as you listen to me I know how far you can make it right and I mean I've been around a lot easier than make camps and it's not the dynamic in a manager it is the fight or boss in the coaches about yeah and it's a you said just because the way the finance is work it's made of false illusion of where the powers of those guys either right like to me the coach is there's the one with the power here but you wanted that way because he's the one with the knowledge in the experience and that's why like that's rehashing them and then BJJ is the same thing too because like sometimes like it's interesting because there's a massive difference between BJJ Brazil in the u.s. and it has to do with money in Brazil BJJ is not profitable it's so competitive there are so many people teaching every perp about starts teaching versus oh right the only ways to make money so as a result you have 20 students everyone's got 20 students no one's got 50 so I mean I was a TCC champion in Brazil IBJJF or a champion our heli maybe 20 or 30 students I'm not making this up now it's when we think about it's crazy you know pay me the equivalent of what 20 $30 a month you know so I'm like basically making $500 a month I'm a TCC champion oh my this is ridiculous but as a result because there's no money I kind of didn't if someone didn't like training like you didn't listen to me I'd kick didn't make a difference yeah it's so little it like is that but in the US it's so it's it's crazy how much the money influences the dynamics of the gym because these these guys come in and you know you're dependent on their money to keep up you know in a big place you got all these bills now the other thing but it was very cheap to run a gym to like here it's a far more expensive bigger investment you sign a lease yeah you have all these responsibilities so all of a sudden like what the student thinks really really matters because you need that to pay the bills yeah and as a result you get these guys that go oh I think it's time for me to get promoted now they don't say it no one says it parents do sometimes but like for the most part the white belt doesn't walk up to and go coach promoting a blue belt but they'll give you hints that they feel they are deserving and ready and a lot of coaches cater to that and like there's pressure that doesn't exist when the data this sort of money dynamic doesn't exist or is what you I want to say as a coach is like and really have this thing like if you ask for a belt in any way shape or form your punishment was to stay an extra year on the curb but we had that powerful people knew never to talk about belts you never imply that you're ready for a new belt you know because they knew is going to punish you like you keep that after you lose a student yeah so coaches have to worry about these things your school I think it's important to find a balance as a business owner because I call them overlapping hierarchies that's where I referred to gyms in the u.s. most of the world in fact like anywhere where gyms are something profitable what's gonna happen is you have the business hierarchy there's a chain of command gym owner of manager employees whatever and then you have the mat hierarchy which is not always the same and they're different morals too because on the mat it's all about discipline and commitment and listen to your coach whereas if you're running the business it's all about growing membership yeah so there's conflicting moralities there too and you have to juggle all this as a gym owner and it is is very difficult to do I think I do a good job I think but like I'm aware of these things because it's a business zone of course you will increase your membership at any cost and then as jiu-jitsu aficionado you want to go you're not deserving I don't care so my advice to gym owners in this regard is to change the create a culture of the gym where they understand that they are paying for a service but you you are still the master and the leader and that's that that place like it's not something you're not none of customers and like you walk in Walmart and you can yell at the manager yeah that's it exactly you're not you're not it's not it's okay we're business but this is not like you know you're not walking at a target and like I demand or shut up you don't the minute you think I'm still the boss here and you have to balance these things out and it's not an easy thing though but it has to do with the culture loving my voice yeah 100% and kind of veered a little bit of away from the that could be conversation I know we saw Tomoka we wind up talking belly that's all my conversations with I think that's what you have a podcast case from yeah because me and they would be like you know chatting about whatever and we end up talking about like 50 different topics in one hour I'm like dude we should just record this that's Lilly with ya because I never thought about having a podcast it was just like I had no ambition to have one you know I don't know if you ever did but it was us bullshitting it's like yeah we've all all over the place maybe some people want to listen for sure back up - could be on again I want to talk about the grappling gameplan in particular because I think it's I've always said this I always told my fighters for me the best place to be in a fight is on top all right because it's a one sided exchange right you know I think I've said this before but we have two elite strikers and they're and they're both fighting each other they're both going to get hit even if one's way better than the other one is part of the striking game it's an exchange whereas when you're on the ground and you're on top it's at one side of the exchange I'm throwing punches from top you're not really doing any damage from the bottom barn going for a submission hold or some sort so like for me to statistically I want to be on top as much time as possible so I'm in a position where I can't take that much physical damage but I can deliver yeah a lot of damage and to top it off the rules also reward that style of game right like if you see a closed round and someone scores to take down nope easy it's funny you say that because I I'm with you top is dominant I've always say this is one reason why like I've always been in favor of point systems because they favored top position and at the same time some of the judges are so uneducated and this drives me crazy about Commission's is that these judges have are so uneducated when it comes to fight it blows my mind to get that job but for their times doesn't happen very often where the gone bottom has been the crap of it yes yes and then they like top so it's like how damaged was the criteria and I actually heard that you have see a commission judge say this he taught a seminar extreme could 20 years ago I remember saying and he was explaining to the fighters how they judge right and I asked a question well what about near submissions and he goes what about him do they count as much as a near knockout when it comes to the judging and they laughed no no the whole room laughing me like I'm crazy and I would I'm we're gonna think from a practical perspective I don't care which one is more impressive yeah that's for Pro Wrestling aesthetics is for Pro Wrestling and then may is about efficiency if I almost choked you which means I could have killed you had I gotten that choked ya choke or and and you almost knocked me out from a grand scheme of things they're both almost finishing the fight they should be equally rewarded the judge like look at me like I'm crazy and he goes basically no if you score a beautiful takedown that is worth more on the judges eyes than the near submission which is insane to me unless the near to the takedown almost knocks them out by c'mon is that in that case it'd be worth as much as a near submission or near knock up because you almost fight but if you just hit like a single you're on the pipe that I I just I don't understand how like that would be awarded more than a near submission what it reinforces is my belief that you know judges are so profoundly uneducated when it comes to functionality of fighting and there's so much bias toward striking and I think it's a cultural thing yeah because in the Anglo world you know people associate fight with punches yeah it's because of movies the influence of boxing you know you know for Americans a lot of times at UFC crowd it's it's a bar fight and you go to Japan for example and you see because everyone at some point has done judo where they at least familiar with judo you can remember back in the day than Pride someone be going for an armbar and you can hear the crowd go like they understood that as a near knockout in their eyes yeah so there's an appreciation for the kaabah that the grappling art and I think that grappling arts in general have always been a disadvantage in MMA because UFC as a business it is it reflects though the desires of the crowd who is paying watch so a lot of the MMA rules are not based off the functionality of fighting it is it is meant to be as real as it gets but in reality it is reflecting the desire of the American crowd or the angular world yes fans and the fans want to see it's almost like overlaps with the rest in a lot of ways whereas statics take precedence over functionality right efficiency and that's why I've always liked like chapter Japanese fans because there's so much more understanding of grappling and I think that a lot of the rules if for example pride back in a day if you're stallin on the ground you get a yellow card in the UFC you get rewarded the judge stand up it's like a complete different I understand it what good okay if I'm stalling I am punished in the UFC you're rewarded for stalling which to me sounds crazy but like you see it all the time the fans are so used to it they don't even realize it yeah I mean to me fighting is all about finishing your opponent's so barring that damage would be the next thing I think is very important and the other aspect is if the fight would have continued who would look like who wins right yeah that's like to me that's the criteria that I think should be used I don't think they really do that like you said I've seen Speights where a guy pull guard and he did it a good close guard game throwing elbows and the other guy and bottom never did anything I'm like he won the damage yeah and I mean he was on bottom but the other guy never threw up on edge is a crazy much like criteria he wanted for them is back you know especially sometimes you see people pull guard now that guys are topping the whole time but not doing anything I'm guys winning this fight he was being smart tactically because maybe he knew he was gonna be out struck and he was able to get the guy sucked into the ground and win the fight there you know but like you said the bias is very strong and they they just see someone on top and they go he's winning this fight you know because he's on top and the guys on bottom it's like no there's more to it than that you know takedowns are good and I come from a wrestling background but not all takedowns are equal like true MMA were like special sometimes you see people just like fall over like well that happened the street he really wasn't hurt I mean they ass you know it was good you did a technique that brought him to the mat but like should that be erase everything else that happened the right laughing no I don't think that not like you said sometimes there's big throws yeah okay no it's not like you say like and sneer submissions I'm gonna I'm halfway in there like someone some submissions I think should definitely count like if you see someone get cranked in the armbar like fully hybrid thin and it pulls out for sure he did damage there yeah I mean words sometimes a choke it look like it's saying but like if you get out and and then to make like a punch that missed yes and the equivalent of someone else someone lands a right hand the guy does that right there with his head back and that'll be a quitter of like a keyword that was never really there near knockout to me is I drop you yeah and you barely recover right the round ends you know that'll be the grabbing with the equivalent of like you haven't reneik it and time is up or the guy's fully extended there what I say near submission is like you almost had the guy and for all practical purposes you both almost ended the fight yeah you know whether one is more impressive than the other has to do once again with the desires of a crowd and in my opinion that shouldn't influence the rules if MMA is meant to be the closest thing to reality then we should exclude aesthetics and what the crowd wants and just stick to what is actually efficient for real combat which is you know not really I mean as a business UFC kind of cares about that that's the whole class form but let's be frank the real important thing for them is ticket sales yeah of course but uh again this all favors a game plan right now that Habib is able to doctor the beat yes all right there could be the matter I think I ever like I think it's I'm the one who always changing topics man I'm sorry I just go on these tangents no no they're but they're relevant because it goes to what he's able to do which he scoring takedowns looks good and he's doing good grandpa troll now what are things I knows he doesn't often throw both hooks in a lot of times I'm talking about this before - like he'll put one hook in and then control the head control the ankle and ride and it's kind of reminiscent to me of some other guys like ask random will do next type of rides where they use Merkel hooks or they just use like single leg riots I and GSP was doing this when he fought Nick Diaz for example and they he never threw hooks in once you know because I find there's there's a vulnerability when you put both hooks in right because where I tell people most dominant positions you have full control of baby being able to disengage whenever you want so like if I see if I'm a street fight perspective I'm fighting you I got mouth I say your buddy coming I could just pop off yeah if I have back mount with both hooks and you're on top of me I'm trying to choke you don't have that up your buddy comes I'm screwed yeah you know I'm gonna get soccer kick yeah right so like that's the one drawback to me on the background the other thing is that your weights on me yeah so technically if you're a really big guy I'm eating the damage of your weight so when you're able to ride like wrestlers do they Jan Lee never have the guy on top of that they're writing for the top maybe one leg hook or just controlling the hips wrist control you have the liberty of disengaging whenever you want and you're getting weight pressure and I gonna totally agree with that and I think that wrestlers are correct and I think they're you know bringing their wrestling mindset where you don't be on bottom unless you have to you're gonna go for a guillotine or a kill sometimes you may have there a naked choking up on their back but like you shouldn't be on your back unless you have to it I think kabhi brings us mindset and I'm with it even like when I I didn't start with rest I should never wrestle I got my whatever wrestler I know I got from MMA I had that money I started leaning toward that mindset because I'm thinking you have to start thinking how the judges they could end up this round on bottom it doesn't matter he just got out of here naked choke I'm still in the round then loses fight I gotta stay on top and once you start looking for top position you realize having two hooks and is not always advantageous in fact a lot of times I don't know what you call it in wrestling but like I have one foot on the ground and I have what I call an anchor on the for ankle sometimes I grab my own ankle and I just like I'd find positions it to keep at least one foot on the ground at all times yeah for exactly the reasons you're describing you get to dominate top position not fall bottom if you don't have to and then you open up for punches and you end up with this sort of control off the cage a lot of times like sub similar khabib does and you don't worry scizor to compromise your dominant position against something goes wrong whereas BJJ as a self-defense art and you know applying to them a a lot of times it is reckless because it goes all submission something should submission no calm Almia yeah oh man I'm all for the submission too but like you know being on top in a fight is important yeah like you would be losing a fight if you just like end up down bottom and I teach my guys it's like you don't go if you do for example go for a submission at the end of the round which is something everyone teaches yeah make sure that you end the round with the submission so let him get out of the submission and let this kind of a dominant spot because the judges are so stupid that they're gonna see what they're gonna see that the guy ended the round on top even though he just barely got out of submission you know they're not gonna reward you for almost finishing they're gonna reward the guy for escaping and just happen to finishing on top finishing the round on top correct yeah like uh one of my guys Jason just defended his title in this seed title he was and he's a good rear naked choke guy the guy he was fighting was defending his back really well so he waited until there was about 20 seconds left on the clock to go for an armbar yeah unfortunate for him he finished the armbar got it but like that's how we I would always play it as well because if you leave too much time at a clock and you go for an arm lock and you miss now you've given the guy a minute to work on top which is very cool sway the opinion very rapidly or landsem punishing blows you know I've done this once in wrestling and hit a big tactical error where I was wrestling this three time state champion Ralph Everett and uh it was a 1-0 match I was down by one point we were both on her feet I was trying to score a takedown and I thought I heard ten seconds I went Hail Mary I'll drop ya and then I missed and I was on my back and I was doing my neck bridge and I know well time zone was up and then I heard 40 seconds we blew it you know they left too much time on the clock you know so yeah having that awareness again that's when a coach is helpful and they could tell you hey you know time is you know like we it does you know because once again going back to combat time is not realistic because in real combat you don't know if the fights gonna take twenty seconds or five minutes or an hour yeah reality of real fighting to me tells me that like street fights are very short yeah 30 sec super short like everyone goes all no time limit is real like no it's not there's no have you never seen a fight there's like no time limit someone's gonna come in and stop or someone's gonna get knocked out or something there's no way it's gonna go so always a boundary yeah nobody fights in football fields they're like oh no stuff in the way man there's only had a bar and I call that it drives me crazy I like up side it's two people my mother whole it self defense these people teach it self-defense and like they've never been will fight have you no idea what happens in a no fight like that you like all open that area it's a mad comfortable you could even BJJ is like some of the most like it's supposed to be this amazing form of self-defense and some of this stuff I I see these people talking about them like that it's just that this controlled scenario that only exists in your mind a man like that doesn't happen in the real world yeah you know so I advise people to be careful with what is being taught as self-defense out there even in BJJ James I'll lie I see this all the time I'm looking at that I'm going I wouldn't never teach that yeah I think it's if you're training mixed martial arts it's pretty much the closest to the best self yeah that's you can understand you know like people always say oh I can bite your nuts if you do fine like come on first of all you can't because your heads over alright but if you really want to do that is the question are these thoughts you think about it's biting someone that's you know armbar gonna bite your cab or whatever you know it's like the moment you put your energy in that your arms gonna get snapped and like my leg okay you know you're dead I'm choking you out exactly sleeve you know like these type of things like I in general want less rules and MMA like I hate the know downed kicks yeah I mean he had such a huge game changer particularly with uh you know that when another thing that paver somebody that could be because old school you didn't see people would just turtle off the get-go right away they would always go to that back yes right like it I was out striking you you would pool you know to a guard or some form you wouldn't just fall to your floors because I would just sucker kick the ever-loving crap out of it I mean I remember the fight with Brad Kohler he got stuck and kicked by babble oh yeah this is why not head up you know it's like it was very rare where people would just stay in there force people would roll to their fours and then move around they wouldn't just camp out there like there was an error in the UFC where people would put the hand finger on the ground yeah yeah yeah buddy got rid of it yeah you know it was [ __ ] you know means like no that's not realistic and you're making this like a sport and I'm a now where this is not being you know close to fighting close to Friday you know so yeah but you know the the cheap stuff like the eye gouging and even though it's happening I poked all the time oh the time I need to put some little goggles on people yeah man like there's a lot of like I I linked towards like what how can we make this as realistic as possible you know I think that uh has an organization I think you know I think the most part they do a good job I think it's as like I said it's the best form of combat ever devised but like some stuff to me like the soccer kicks I'm with you you know one day would change things dramatically I think would be huge rubble and I don't understand why it's illegal I've never heard a good argument why can't the guy in guard to kick the guy that's inside his car yeah I mean it's not gonna be a stronger standing kick so if if it being too violent is your argument or the kick won't the standing kick is way stronger than when it comes from the bottom especially if I'm standing you can kick me ya know but if I'm on my knee you can't why not that doesn't make sense because if you think about the range he's gonna make you less powerful yeah cuz I'm too close to your yes yeah I mean like my legs would be half way bent when you're standing but I bet soccer kick I mean up kicked and MMA fight that hurts yeah I'm air that was at one time I got in range because of right yeah so it was in the my Costa Rica fight big dude he I was like but like on the ground I wouldn't be as work because think I'm too close yeah me but not like I think he would change things dramatically because I would throw like sidekicks from close guard I always wanted to do that hold the wrist and sidekick people and start up kicking like little short up kicks and then and then that the judges because I've had this conversation with judges before and they go oh you can't kick one on the ground way why not and they come up with something you know in people they don't have an answer but they don't want to admit that they don't have an answer so they'll go on these like like these rants about like you know that they're trying to justify without giving you a good justification they don't have an answer it there's no good reason why up kicks' from with a grant with a opponent on his knees should be illegal I think that that wouldn't make fight very different for the bottom player yeah because if I were in guard and I will be able to kick my opponent my guard maybe I wouldn't be knocking him out but may I be doing some damage yeah like throw it some head kicks from the bottom no I think that and I think like white guy on top should be able to kick me ahead it would make psy control very powerful position which currently right now it's kind of that yeah like he got a little stuffy elbows and stuff like it when when you could knee someone in the head on Syme out now it's very dangerous I teach more north south they've become really dangerous deadly yeah I and I think they you still probably get less power out of that than you do when you're standing yeah that's funny me like how these criterias like one of them like local have been here and big like the amateur fights they don't want our foot locks yeah y-you can Shin someone in the EMEA and the fat crosses face like okay that's fine and but for a lotta no that's too dangerous I remember one time I was fighting in Texas and I had taper on my ankle and they didn't let me wear the tape and I'm like I had a bad ankle yeah like it wasn't like you they tape your hands with tape it can make them saw yeah but it was just like like one layer of tape like oh no cuz this is what he told me your opponent can cut his eye on the tape oh my god and I'm like so I can shin him in the eye I can need him in the face and that's all good but the tape is the real problem like some of their that the thought process a lot of these promoters commissioners have behind rules are just so outlandish that out no and they don't have experience that's why I like fighters will never make these rules if they have fighters make it was in jiu-jitsu and MMA I'm convinced the systems will be very different but they normally have people with no background they're fans basically making up rules they just will understand what's dangerous and what's not we I had a guy once amateur sport dude you know in Florida at the time they had ten counts for amateur MMA it just doesn't make any sense but this guy I don't even know how you done you do that 10 count like you stopped the fight they stagger all right they give them a tank out and then they restart the fight and this is supposed to be for safety I'm like so basically the guys about to get knocked out you just offer concussion and then you let him fight again yeah oh my god and the guy g5 man he was a ringer he was a stud I mean I think the guy was coaching was him at that level he got dropped by the way over here right boom guys swarmed him and then whoa 10 count and then I okay again guy takes him down from the half guard starts body shot ego nasty ten count so at this point he's got probably a mild concussion got bruised ribs they started up again I'm like this pork it just needs to be finished it's so true man because and once again it's look at their arguments and even think this through they go it's for their safety like you realize what's happening this guy's like half that happens to stand back like I I say this all the time they're like it's the people who make rules just don't understand or the most part they don't understand fighting it blows my mind but yeah Dave one final one why I think you know we're running just over passing out I want to pick your brain one more things so what do you think okay so we have a kebede we kind of saw like that just going back to that like I wanna talk about that that grappling in MMA right because it was for a minute they're all grappling is Dan in MMA or BJJ is dead like I thought that was a stupid thing yes I see a submission every UFC and even if you say oh it's not because it was and a it's a sixth i i luckily by the way I look at submission grappling jujitsu samba sites all the same [ __ ] yeah there's like different rules but it's basically grab the guy and put him away right locks and submission hold is there way too many similarities for you to go like all they're completely there no they're not if they could people focus on the differences not on the similarities right yeah but you've seen a comeback with you know guys like even like Damien my I feel like he crossed that bridge because his wrestling got so good it was ezel unusually good at wrestling for jiu-jitsu guy yes even though his wrestling was like not collegiate wrestling no it was like you know but neither was GSP GSP was what was just be great out of this wrestling wasn't wrestling per se it was his timing from striking interest yeah that's where he excelled if you put him in wrestling mats with with guy like Ben Askren like he had demolished I mean I in competitions no way he'd Hank is what I'm saying yeah he's not going in the Olympics and we don't know neither what Demian Maia like not a chance right but like they've managed to create a wrestling style that fits an amazing just piece case it was like transitioning the timing so well from striking in to take down yeah and in Damien's case like he just like the goofiest stuff that's not supposed to work like as in like pulling half guard and coming back up to a single yeah and he he's done it to me like he's match that to the point where I think people underestimate like how strong that half guard is to come back up yeah and he actually got that from Lucas late yeah that's what he came from but it works so well in anime man and he's the kind of guy that made that he was making that bridge right between the grabbing styles and I think khabib is main reason why he's so dominant is because he has made that transition into striking with wrestling with very dominant cannot BS ground yeah like the old-school ground-and-pound inside closed guard doing this right nothing's happening always killing Italy nothing's happening like I don't think close guard is that great of a ground in town position personally I think it's very overrated he's like half the time you have your head down you're doing this right here the only Kos you see from close guard was a guy on the bottom is already rocked rocked on his feet and then they gets finished on the ground but Kos that started and closed all right very rarely it's rare because I mean one it's hard to get the same type of power you can from your feet yeah and I mean you just don't have it there but like anything if you hit someone enough you will put them out yeah I got shaken baby syndrome you know like if I just keep hitting you with little shots I'll eventually put your way yeah so like for the most part you usually have a hard time getting that type of knockout power from a close guard especially when the guy can pull you in when everybody whines and they have hands so they can watch you end up with like these like little I'm scoring points kind of punches they're not really doing any damage like I even in crane like sometimes put small gloves on and have these guys when I hit me they never got hit hard from cyclones garmo is like blocking catching and plus when the threat from attacking from the bottom is there then these guys are like far more hesitant about what they do so yeah I think it's very overrated but guys like be what they do is he moves forward he wants to get to that half guard he will pass he will let you turtle so he can get the position really once right and that's an aggressive grappling style that I always believed was gonna be I think that's the most dominant style could have solid hands good striker arrived but really striking into his wrestling his residence where he excels and his ground game is just very aggressive not prioritizing control he's not like I mean if you I think if you put could be even like a tease you see I don't think you'd win a single match you know I think he stands a chance I guess like the high level rappers but like his style for MMA is I I think sparked my favorite fighter of all time you know for a number of reasons like I like to I think what he did that the whole episode was McGregor I admire him so much more after fight because not because he jumped out of the cage but he kept his cool up to that point know how much things anger was built inside that guy and he keep plated just like bottled those emotions like this guy [ __ ] and then when you finally beat him that's when he explained hold it anymore he just let it out explode but I admire not the fact to be exploded it could have kept that cool a little bit longer but it the fact that up to that fight he never let Conor get in his head and then when Dana wanted a fire Sabina he's like if you fire him you're gonna have to fire me too that's pretty badass I I look up to these things I'm going that's legit like there's not a lot of that going on in the world but he's very principled so yes for that you know I mean I don't agree with getting you know losing your cool and all that but at the very least he's consistent yes and the thing was I don't believe he was putting an act on heated no he that's him he's not put in the night yeah some people you know a lot of people put acts on you know water probably puts an act on those tickets yeah hey you know he's driven by the need for fame and money yeah you got guys at kholby who are clearly putting an act on and it surprises me that people buy the act I'm like it's over it's progress it's progressing and it's it's it's so hacky but it's working so you know that mean he's making he's writing his own meal tickets it's good for him you know but I got someone like khabib is pretty much exactly what you see and I love the fact that he's principal because you know me I'm big on these things these things to me or as important and fight as his skills you know I get the fact that he's because when Connor insults his family his religion his ethnicity his far I mean he insulted ever dude like okay Connors thing I'm just trying to promote the fight could be but not thinking that isn't good I'm gonna kill you you couldn't so my family they take that stuff in a different way where it's like we don't understand that way I'm I'm more like him in a sense were like it's you know you you crossed that line man that's it's not just show business anymore man like you you know yeah and you've lost respect and there's like this is a respect that we've lost it's like you don't talk like that about anyone especially not a fighter that you're you know you should it should be a code there a moral code that you should follow of respect and like these guys lost that completely and I think could even with a few guys out there who keeps that as part of his you know moral matrix and I I admire that as much as his skills even though he could see what he did with the difference the contrast with me fight doesn't for you he took he word Dustin's shirt and he said he was gonna sell it for charity and it was a Dustin Poirier was promoting a charity he was gonna give that money to the charity so that's very classy thing to do right you know it's not an act I truly believe he does that as I think I just probably college it's all a guy yeah but like yeah you can tell he's the type of guy that he gives respect but he also wants it back you're not gonna give it back then you're gonna feel the wrath you know so I think you like old school in a sense was like he has that he's very how can I describe this hey you have that that the honor he's a kind of guy like it's a handshake like a handshake I mean something yeah your word you know like where's I feel like most move these days like a handshake means like absolutely nothing anyone you know like guy like him and me since why I admire that but very dominant guy I have a guy that's gonna beat him a few years we're working on it two three more years and what we got him but because he's a better grappler because it's a better you know and I truly believe that but uh you know we're working on it huh no but yeah I think that type of game like you know whenever people think oh something's dead and like that's when they're gonna start coming right it's like this old saying when you're Barbara she was giving you stock tips you already know the ship sail yeah by the way but like Dave was like I talked about but what I should probably buy so I was like eighteen thousand dollars and it crashes the next day is like story of my life like when people say Oh rappeling is gone right now like it's gonna be striking about like no it's gonna come back it's like everything there's pendulums this one way back the other way like everybody I agree like I think we were talking the other day like Keenan was saying all the nogi games imploding essentially implying that the set of techniques are being reduced to just a few you know like no I mean like leg locks and wrestling I think it's just a sway like right now the leg lock offense is ahead of the defense right so like yeah people are catching a lot a lot of people but eventually defense to step up and kind of negate the leg locks and then it's gonna become something yeah it is such a pendulum because I for example like passing on your knees which is something I don't know how to do that's how old-school it is because I'm cuz it old-school I'm like 38 and I don't know how to pass a my knees because when I started training people weren't doing that anymore yeah but it's making a comeback because like it's the leg lock games get shut off a lot it's hard to get underneath you when that's single exit but once I'm gonna turn your knees it's hard to get underneath people so a lot of people are starting to pass more like this so it is a pendulum and like even like a mortar which is something like as old-school as it gets I mean you're looking at classical Greek Greece and you have I have pictures of like these guys flying cumulus but it's made a comeback in a lot of ways because people were not exploring how much they could do yeah with that Kim water right listen to everything itself like there was a period like when I started doing them like 1999-2000 where he looks were working great and then around like at least when I could trace like around 2006-2007 they start becoming a factor yeah cuz the regular actually grew on me he LaHood yeah like everybody got it all right like we know how to defend this and then 5050 came in and started changing things and then it faded away like a hippie 50 now is just a cast all in position but then they came down with a sad older which is old but it was brought back in yeah and now it's killing it but like I feel like in a certain point people will figure it out and then they're gonna move into something else yeah yeah so like I like I never I told people not to get caught up with fashion if anything you should try to think outside the box and do what no one is doing because a lot of people who I'm gonna do what everyone else is doing that means they're just following the barbers advice you know we should be doing this what is it that is highly efficient and no one is thinking about doing I remember like there were competitors that were like made a few of them like for a minute they're doing it like this joke you know and I started doing it for a minute - and I was killing people with it because no one cared about this choking like some of my blue bows perfect pose I'd probably never seen anyone fly that oh that even though that joke existed you know because like some schools don't even teach it anymore right so it's basic as it gets like the cross color joke but it is uh did it's there like I I'm one of the opinion I don't set a hierarchy so much as I called dispositions better than that one I think you have the top ones like armbar and rear-naked I'm never gonna go away yeah but other than that mammal you got to be careful when you're like you get too much into these trends because they actually may cause you Mike they're not you're not gonna be ahead of the game if you're just following in trends as well yeah you're always going to be behind where yeah you need to be thinking like you said I had a curve what are people not doing you know and figure out so people will follow your trend Yeah right not you following them we're talking Kyla we'll wrap it up guys if you're a beginner like this skip that just stick just listen to your coach okay stick to the basics yeah they don't wipe those are like oh what's that fifty fifty four will get their hurdle closed guard first yeah yeah but at least for for right now it looks like like he said grappling his turn and make it way back in I like that tell you but uh like he said for how long like the next fight they're trying to put him up against his 21st which i think is a very interesting fight for it could be because it's another strong grappler and he hasn't lost since I think they said like two thousand something or other like that it's just he gets injured and gets head light so that's a very interesting fight um it happened to the Perry agree they tried to make it happen four times already and it's falling through four times that little got my money on cubby but I think it will be a definitely a good test definitely one of the better problems in division that's for sure yeah and he's just a wild man yeah you know like he we have Disney like in eight weeks or something like that yeah which like nine months in and I'm feeling pretty good now but I think I wouldn't fight right now yeah yeah he's probably not like yeah I like Wolverine seriously blood you know guys and Savage anyway Dave thing that's it man I had a lot of fun yeah I hope you guys enjoyed it as well we will do this again yes and yeah guys you know this is something me and they just started so we always ask you know people to help spread the word you know post it on your Facebook on your Instagram post a link subscribe on iTunes and we're gonna Google Play and I'm pod bean if you go to the website breaking the guard calm it has the links for all the different places you know so if you want to subscribe on YouTube or whatever you can do it from there alright thank you guys thanks for listening and we'll see you guys next time [Music]