BTG 12 - Kit Dale

[Music] hey guys what's going on David out wrong here Robert Drysdale and with our special guest kid Dale coming all the way from Los Angeles welcome to the show Thank You Man thank you good to have you kids been a long long time friend of ours like he's done I think the last cities to see you you prepared the gym right yet it yeah and no kid for a while now it's always fun to watch him you know which is stunts on line watch his career developing from a grappler to a movie star that's pretty cool and uh yeah a lot of fun man so kid tell us a little bit about your journey I come you know how you got here what was the vision when you first started like how much has that vision changed like more like the like the background a kid Dale okay well I'll start with when I was a kid we started I watched a lot of Bruce Lee movies so my uncle used to sit me down and and tell me about that and I would pretty much sit there in the [ __ ] practicing anything Bruce Lee did and so I always liked martial arts I got into karate when I was younger and then my dad was a big Ozzy rules fan so he paid me $20 to quit karate just before I was about to go for my blue belt to quit and to play Australian rules football and I started playing that but I was a little bit I was very immature physically as well as mentally and I I was I was lot smaller than most the kids so I was quite shy and it took me a while to sort of find my feet with sport and I think until I was about 18 years old I didn't really do well in football and then I started doing very well and I I end up playing for one of the best first division teams in the country and I had opportunities to start going higher VfL which is just under AFL which is the highest level offered me to come and play with them and I was kind of at that stage when I decided to move in towards jiu-jitsu which I just started I was getting beaten up a little bit by some of the bigger player the league and I was probably I was 21 22 at that age and I wanted to learn how to defend myself because I was always petrified of any kind of fight if there's a fight on the you know on the field like I was nowhere near it or how was I was kind of like hiding behind other people and stuff so I wanted to learn how to protect myself so I found a mixed martial arts gym near where I was working and I started training with that and then we did a little bit of jiu-jitsu and I thought I was going to destroy these dudes because there were little little uh you know Johnny pencil-pusher looking types and they destroyed me so I was like you know I really need to learn this and and then about a couple months later I entered no I didn't enter turn I watched the tournament I had no idea that was even tournaments forge it's Jiu Jitsu I watched the tournament and there was a guy that was a white belt that was around the same level as me and he won the tournament as a wipeout sauce think black you can win it they know I should be able to win this as well technically I did win that if I beat him so I I started competing and the more I competed the more enjoyed it I ended up quitting football to pursue jiu-jitsu and at first it was just a goal of I thought you know if I train really hard in ten years I could have my own Academy and not have to work again and that would be you know very good for me I hated working not work ever it just like train all day and day like yeah reality kicks in and and I had a little bit of a unique start to Jiu Jitsu I think I was very I'm actually really lazy as a person unless I'm really interested in what I'm doing I'm very lazy and I hated thee which we'll get into a little bit I hated the technique so out of training I didn't mind learning the technique I just didn't like having to repeat it so ah yeah like I would like to practice it you know five or six times and then get the idea then I wanted to try and implement it in in live training so I tended to stay out of the technique side of stuff and I'll kind of get there and sit on my phone or weight or just purposely come a little bit late and then I would get straight into the specific training which would you know someone's gonna try and pass through guard or you go try sweep them and you just keep going like that and I spent most of my training doing that and then a little bit of free rolling at the end but it was only really like 35 to 40 minutes of rolling that I would do per session you know one two three no I think one two five times a week depending on work and football and stuff so and I noticed I started doing really well really quickly and we're trying to figure it out it didn't really make much sense to us because I'm sitting there I'm thinking okay everyone else is doing like the drills and stuff like that the drilling heaps are doing a lot more work than me so the most usually training more than me but I seem to be excelling quicker and we had no idea why but it kept going on like that I ended up like I won the blue belt Abu Dhabi world championship that year the purple belt that year after I got silver at the brown belt the year after that and then I went black belt and it wasn't till after that that I kind of realized that I started looking at case studies for for motor learning and stuff like that for any kind of skill acquisition that I realized why I was excelling a lot quicker compared to people that were looking at it a bit more traditionally so I ended up figuring all that kind of stuff out and and then since then I started teaching more and I stepped out away from the competitive side of Jitsu probably 2014 I kind of I don't know if I it I just felt like from where I was and I was competing at high level black but I was doing well like I would get to like the semi-finals of the world's know about it but I wasn't losing by much I would be like - a five-time world champion where I lose by an advantage or a sweep or something and I felt like for me to get to the next level I need to do a lot of cardio a lot of physical work which I don't really enjoy doing and I thought you know I I liked acting and ever since I was a little kid we used to film like little funny skits me and my brothers got a little camera and we would do a lot of comedy stuff a lot of flight stuff Star Wars wrestling and I thought you know I wouldn't mind getting more and it was actually it was just as I hurt my knee - I hurt my knee I went back to Australia was football for like season to try and after I quit you did so in 2000 I think it was started as a 15 hurt my knee and thought okay I can't do jiu-jitsu for at least a year or two because I didn't have the money to have a knee reconstruction I didn't have health insurance so I had to kind of wait I end up getting into movies I was really lucky I got a big role in a feature film quite quickly which paid for my knee reconstruction and I got my name fixed and then I decided to work more in teaching Jiu Jitsu online just out of my the kid Dale training calm and stepped I still compete in jiu-jitsu like I was but it was not like a competitor competes you know I would like I think the best training I had was when I come and train with you guys for a DCC and that was probably three weeks so I still can I was still competing I still do compete but it's you know wherever I can get the training and then in competing and stuff um I was gonna ask you like you going back to the beginning you said you know you started as a child you were very interested in Bruce Lee and you know you can see that there is a leaning towards combat like you you were you know you felt like a call in that direction I remember as a child it was the same thing was Van Damme and Bruce Lee and you know I did some Hapkido like you when I was a kid I couldn't quite get into his too much drilling and I hated that like punches in front of the mirrors I'm like what is this I wanted to fight you know and then wasn't until I found Brazil in jiu-jitsu as a teenager right so I guess like what I'm trying to get at is this like nature nurture discussion that is so relevant to sports and martial arts how do you feel about that in regards to you know you an arrow because you were in out environment that's like Australians are not known and now they are like it's picking up a Brazil judge but it's never been it's not Brazil or the US right it's always been like you've always been four years that's been huge right but you know you had you had a leaning towards more shorts Yeah right how much do you believe that is part of kit Dale or is it warm or like a trend this is cool like how do you feel about that no I think it was a huge part of nature because it wasn't big in Australia there was no way I was gonna discover jujitsu with that you know stumbling upon it the way I did if it wasn't for my uncle that was a huge influence of me I had two uncles really that and they filmed a lot of their own martial arts and that were quite good at what they did you know there was a lot of like flashes though but I really enjoyed that kind of training and that were my heroes so I was always practicing that kind of stuff I was the same I loved and I can't remember the other the other ones but whoever it was and I really enjoyed that and because I was very insecure as a person I think I really leaned into the martial arts because it made me feel a little bit more confident yeah I did dabble in some striking as well but I didn't like getting punched in the head that's so I tended to prefer the grappling side of things but any family function I went to there was always a wrestle like it was me that I had two younger brothers ones here in ten months younger than maybe the other ones three years younger I have cousins like a year older two years old three years old and we're all very similar built so any function we went to is like okay we're wrestling that's it so it was very easy for me to go the martial arts were out but it was very accidental that I stumbled upon jiu-jitsu because it was very small in Australia at that time I think and what year was that that would have been 2008 and I think the only one I heard of that was doing jujitsu was was an MMA fighter I listen on see not what I did hear about him there was one other as well George Sotiropoulos okay and so when I started he was like the one that we're talking about like George's a killer and he's doing this and this was before he made his run through UFC so I had a huge part to do with my you know my upbringing and stuff otherwise there's no way I would've I mean it would've been very rare that I would discover jiu-jitsu because it like I said at that time it was very small in Australia now it's much bigger and and there's a few guys like Craig and Lachlan that are doing really well leading the way and Levi as well Levi Jones I think is that I think it's Leroy Jones I know who was Australian for the longest time yeah he think he moved to New York about three years ago I was training with the the unity unity so a lot of him didn't know that but now he was really good for a long time he was coming through he was similar to Craig we knew he's really good for a long time and had he got this black fella there just Peter Lukas lepree at the Europeans this year yeah which Luke is like very rarely losing his divisions huge when mmm-hmm he's really good really tough I think he'll continue to do well I think he's very young inspiring young so how do you feel about like that it's digital see in Australia we're seeing this it seems to be like like you guys late like Craig and Lachlan yourself and like Levi and whatever the overall you know scene in Brazil you just seen in Australia what is it what are they looking at how do you feel about it well it's looking good at the moment I think it's just going to keep getting better and better I think I think our Australians are along the same level as at lettuce ISM there's most you know tough countries I think most of what convicts so they used to running and stuff like that we I think physically we're quite well a tough nation and a lot of other than me don't shy away from hard work and I think because of I think earlier on myself Craig and Lachlan doing really well in Levi it's given a lot of people a lot of confidence and a lot of motivation where they didn't have that for a long time and I think with the you know the age of information that we have now online it's really easy for anyone to get up-to-date with what's going on I think like I remember when I first started those dual martial arts back in the day I was doing nunchucks as well I used to look up nunchucks videos and there's only one guy that had like videos of nunchucks online and they're so black it was like 3 megapixels or something yeah and I'm trying to figure out what he was doing so now it's a lot easier online there's so many good instructionals yeah yeah I think they're gonna continue to do really well so thank how did you get connected with Lachlan and with Craig did you start off at the same school or was that later down the road that no so Craig Craig was from South Australia and he'd come into it much later Laughlin I met when I was a white belt originally he was a brown belt and I saw him at the first ever competition I did was like an in-house tournament and and Lachlan was there so I remember there was another brown bat I knew and he was really good and they said obvious guys are really good no talking about Lachlan so that was the first time I met him what by the time I got to pepper belt he got in contact with me and said we should start training we were from different academies so we got together and we were trained and once or twice a week just roll and and then I ended up we continue to Train about black belt I had an academy that I was teaching it as a black belt and it was at the same time I kind of got burnt out and I really wanted to move away from jujitsu for a while and I left that Academy for Lachlan to take over so that's what absolute MMA is right now it was originally I kind of remember what we called it it was something like I remember you open in the gym and you know I remember how like that the stud the stick or the find on the wall yes yes and then I work with affinity with what's-his-name grad bait don't lick home paid though in Brazil right now no they have a seminary school while ago I remember Greg Neil Neil Neil and but then you had that that's terrible there's like no drilling yeah I thought it was funny cuz like I was cuz I feel the same way you do about this and when the whole drilling thing started I remember how it started I've got a drill drill drill right and I'm going the people or talking module I'm not gonna mention names but people are writing books on drilling I know them for a fact I've trained with them for years in Brazil and I have never seen them I think it's but it's it's I don't I'm not you know we're gonna talk a bit more about this but I always thought it was there dirt there it's not a necessary and elementary number of the equation no I think that there's room for and I like some aspects of it but where did this come from how do you why is he so why are you so critical of the drill well after I well like I said when I was going from white to black bus I went from white to black belt in about four years with no prior grappling experience I was trying to figure out okay how can I do this and let's try and replicate the same results and then when I started looking at case studies I started discovering the drilling had very little impact in progression if not it was more detrimental to progression the most beneficial I started looking at case studies and I'll explain that a little bit about how they went and they're basically showing that and I understand why people do it and I think for some for some sports and for some areas of work being they're grateful for like if you're on an assembly line or something where you got to continue to do the same thing over and over again it's the perfect way of life because you don't want to be thinking you just want to react quickly in something like jiu-jitsu that's highly you know multi complex with different people different personalities I don't think you're ever going to see the same position exactly twice they'll be very similar variations but they're always going to be very different so anything that's not like made for muscle memory is great and I think certain areas like wrestling like learning how to shoot really quick and stuff like that I think it can be beneficial for just to start off with just to get that movement though like that but jiu-jitsu without the wrestling there's not a lot of there's a lot of that isn't necessary because a lot of its not speed based you know it's timing based and a lot of it's very slow and it's methodical but I understand why people go into that because when you let's say you go from not knowing a technique to practicing a technique you start off really bad and then you practice them more and more and you can start seeing tangible progression in your ability to perform that technique with a you know with a cooperating partner and you see their progression it feels like I'm kind of getting better and getting better at something but you don't realize that the crossover into a actual skill you know acquisition in training isn't like that yeah and this the case studies showed that they did that there's like four or five different Studies on this one was basketball one was hand a certain hand movement one was golf one was baseball and basically what happened is they would get at a the basketball one they had two groups separated and one group practiced I think it's called a free throws a free throw from the the yeah you say okay and the other groups that I did it from multiple areas and during the training they're all tested at the end and the group that we're doing the assists the yes so the group that was doing the the one from the one area they had a little bit better progression during training than the other group was pretty much like that and then they tested it the next day and a group that was just doing what you would call the drilling of the same technique went down about 60% and the other group continued to go up and what they kind of discovered is that when you're doing any kind of exercise you're doing four things you are analyzing the situation let's say for basketball you're looking at the distance of the ring you know in depending on how I'll tall you are know there's any wind there's a tack wheezing going on yes and you got to figure that out and then you come up with a solution okay I'm gonna execute it using about this much strength you know whatever it and then you shoot it and then you and then you evaluate how you went was it a little bit short okay it's a little bit short so you take that information and you start again you know from calibrate yes and you do that for the first three or four until you get one and then from then on all you're doing is continuing the body movement so you're learning the motor functions of it but there's no neurological work going on there's no synapses because you've already figured out that equation now an assistive body where the other group was doing everything continuously over and over again so they developed mentally much more than the other group so they also developed physically but mentally as well so if you look at any any kind of like jiu-jitsu what's one of the one of the main things of getting good jiu-jitsu is you know skill acquisition and remembering what's going on because if you can't remember what's going on you're never going to progress know so a big part of that is problem-solving you have to have that problem-solving situation that you keep going because once you get to the end and you analyze your results you take that information to the start and then you start again and then you take that information to the start and your knowledge on area just keeps growing and growing and growing and they also discovered that your memory system is like a scaffolding system that the the less information you have the harder it is to learn new information because we learn by association more than anything else it doesn't matter whether you learn physically like kinesthetically and visual it's how you associate with that information so if you but know nothing to associate with what someone's teaching you it's very hard to grasp what's going on and that's why good coaches like yourself use food analogies and I use certain analogies of people know about so they can associate new information the more information you have on something the easier it is to learn new stuff so I think with specific training being I think one of the best tools of learning because you're in a confined environment and it's a safe place to practice something in a certain area you're going to keep developing more and more information and understand not just like what you're doing but why you're doing it which is much more important than and how and it teaches you how to think you know I like going to the DECA the other thing we're talking about the collaboration because I saw that study and I remember drawing the same conclusions it's like the people do things specifically it's like they plateau because there's no stimuli it's the variety of stimuli that makes you know makes you teach how to think yeah how would that do dishes a lot about improvising like you were saying no to situations I present my can grapple with Dave everyday and it kind of like we do end up in the same situations over and over kinda like when we fought it's like I mean they're what we grapple is like a replay the ones I'm good like I can't sweep them you can't pass whatever we can do the same things over and over but it's never identical no it's never identical and I think that it's it's the variety of stimuli and teaching your body how to think on the spot and improvised on the spot is what makes good grapple yeah you know and that's not something easy to do like it's something that comes a lot of practice and I have my doubts if the kind of drilling that people do is beneficial for that iii-i'll I do like some kinds of drilling and we can talk on the shirt Dave you know cuz I become from wrestling so they have and that I like the weak wrestlers drill I like but I see some people doing some of the you guys everyone's gonna recognize this where some one one one ones laying down definitely puts both one hand on each knee I mean they can skip left and right and I'm watching people do that I'm gonna but dude you're just funny years and never have I ever seen anyone in any guard get past that way 22 years you just never seen it but people drill it and they like just skip their feet left and right and I'm watching that I'm going you just find your nervous system that has the benefit to your jujitsu as the same as jogging has like jagged benefits or digit so you're moving their feet you little cardio but there's no technical improvement nah yeah I think and it's two things that I want to mention before I ask you about the the American drilling cuz I work with a lot of Russians and that I like the way they drilled as well and it was more of a problem by the problem-solving based drilling yeah but there's two things that are really important to understand there was a recent study by I'm not gonna mention and I do have my phone but she figured that it takes around four hundred repetitions to create synapses in the brain but if you do it playfully it only takes about 12 so you know you can practice something you know over and over again or you can do it in a playful manner like a problem-solving manner you're going to absorb it in a much faster time the other big part of this which most people don't know is the amygdala which is the part of the brain called the lizard brain that's the fight-or-flight part of the brain has a huge role in storing information it basically decides how deep to store information it decides whether you store something for a couple you know seconds like if I'm on the phone with you I leave no a code and you tell me the code I can punch it in and then seven seconds later that codes gone you know that's all I need it for but you did so you want to learn you want to retain all that information as much as you can and they figured out that the more emotionally aroused you are the deeper you store information to means more yes so your amygdala interprets it as more value yes so if you look at drilling compared to specific training there was very little emotional value in in drilling you're kind of doing it over again just thinking about it when you're doing specific training this high stakes you sitting okay I don't want to make mistakes and I want to get submitted I don't want to in an oval rolling either way but it's much I can guarantee bias both you guys win the last three times you got submitted you'd have a very good idea where they were you know what I mean I practice write it down a little book but there's a lot of books on it now that really explain it a lot better than what I can articulate it but it's an evolution of learning now which we pretty much used to learn everything it's all problem-solving and learning to me is is a mystery in a lot of ways because I think about a class right I get 20 people in the class right I show them let's say an armbar from garden of jihad or whatever move it's the same information it's given to every single individual in that group right some people get it without drilling no one ever taught me to guillotine or Darce I think I saw a guillotine was like that makes perfect sense got it you know and then some people they just have a hard time for me so it's the same amount of data and I've why is it that's for some people that the absorption of information takes such a higher precedence than it or other individuals and I think you just hit the nail on the head when you're saying that had there's an emotional attachment to that information it means something you write like this is important stuff I got to learn it's like it's the guy that thinks about bear and bulls all day drills burning bowls all day watch the million videos on Baron balls you know dreams about how final minute is in my clutch with Messi and then you know and then he's blown away that the next day he's hitting berry bowls and I see it's the drilling that did it's like no it's the emotional attached to the movie means some it means so much to you you would actually hold on to that information Socrates said that like he had a the Socratic method which was key to learning anything he's questioning why if you keep questioning why and you go deeper and deeper and deeper you're gonna come to a truth in the end and you can have so much knowledge on that I remember Craig Jones before he blew up he would sit there and I've come to class and he was there already and he'd be scissoring some other dude trying to figure out a different thing yeah like it what do you think of this what do you think of that and like he's knowledge on that was far greater than mine so I'm glad well that's you know but he he was consistently sitting there and trying to figure things out you know why does this work what is this you know why is it's effective and I think if people have that that curiosity curiosity good those we're looking for they're gonna get good at whatever they're doing yeah whether it's acting with it whatever it is you've got to have that curious personality to under when I was starting I was never really too interested in how to do something you know some people you know when you teach something and someone will be like what if this happens what if that happens that was never mean I was always like why would I do that you know why do we do that is that I thought was more important to figure out why we're doing that then you can kind of figure out the timing and stuff I'm really interested to hear that the the American drilling as well okay so again wrestling again I'm not like a college or world-class wrestler wrestle in high school three years but I went to college camps and whatnot I have an idea of how they do it at least and for me there's a few parts of it one you have just like you're saying it you're doing a specific drill to build speed technique power right like very first day of wrestling you're doing shots all over the place and you'll do it in a variety of ways one them you'll just do the lunch you know so if you're not familiar heel toe knee knee touch the ground power step drive and you're gonna do that on the map and then they'll give different I guess accents to it like they'll say okay now I want you to shoot it as fast as possible and then another time I want you to shoot as deep as possible so a different emphasis is always talking about right so we're focusing on different parts of it technique then you get a partner now do it against the partner now a partner gives you 50% resistance now a partner is going to do this specific counter and you're gonna work against it right so Carol you're talking about the specific training I call it situational training right like would create a situation now respond to it and I find that to be very helpful just like you're saying because you're getting a lot of exposure to a particular position quickly if we were just doing free rolling we might get there once or twice but if I do a specific drill now they get there a hundred times in five minutes so that experience is gonna allow you to innovate faster yeah I have no problem that I think that's great as well that's not the drilling that I'm against oh you're talking about more repeating the same just repetition but in for a situation like that I think it's important to do that because it's very alien position for most humans I mean most people are going to avoid sitting there on their knees because it's not very comfortable you know a lot of times I think it's important to to force someone into that position to become more comfortable for that so I think there's also even if you were just doing the static repetition of it there's certain things that I feel like well it's not going to be too bad because you're going to need to to get in that position there may be and I haven't thought about there may be more beneficial ways of doing it but I I don't have an issue with that it's more like once someone can do it and execute it and then they just continue to do it on and on and on and like more for jujitsu situations that I see that bothering me the most but like I feel like once you've once you can get your head around a certain position then you go start playing with it live and start figuring out like we said before with the problem-solving start developing more information on that rather than just focusing on the technique and I think a lot of people they fall down the wrong hole of like these they see a technique they see you know halfway or menders or something do something and they think okay if he's done that that's the best technique so I've got to do it yeah but they don't realize they're sewing from the so much information in half ales head as to why he's doing that like so much information and then he executes that and people see the tip of the iceberg that was the technique but they don't realize that under that iceberg is this huge amount of information that they're never gonna have yeah so they kind of read the cover of the book that you practice you know they just keep repeating the cover but they never read it hopefully now the drilling itself like you just said I I see you know you do one of your sweeps and they're okay I'm gonna do that and I do it in a closed environment and that's all I do not super beneficial Oh get better at it but without feedback I'm not growing so to me the drilling is a crucial part of the training but it requires a feedback element which to me is situational training or sparring yeah because I'm gonna do that same technique on you and then something's gonna happen yeah maybe it works maybe a dinner and maybe your counter because I messed up and then I have to come back in and okay analyze observe why did that happen fix a mistake and then I drilled a new iteration of this move because to me the idea behind drilling is to build proficiency so you're building speed you're building strength you're building power and depending on the type of drilling you do timing can come in there as well mm-hmm right but by itself it's not a solve all I can't just get a book and a sparring dummy and do techniques all day and become a world champion like I know I need the feedback so I can autocorrect yeah ya know so to me that's a big part of it now like some stuff that you're saying aggressing I think drilling is very crucial to it because of the brutal nature of wrestling yeah you don't see a lot of 40 all the wrestlers because you know all the throwers all the slams and jelly wrestlers don't break fall because it's not good for them they get scored on if they break fall so they're doing what hand posts on behind their back and you're gonna Buster show they're busting elbow so when the drilling allows you to do is get a very good workout that's specific to the type of motions you're gonna do in a life situation without the injury risk yeah yeah because hold it's a controlled environment I know exactly what I'm doing I know what you're gonna do we're not gonna you know like I've never been heard reallly you know and I would for I know this is a nightmare I tell you here but I would just like an hour on end and I would pick a DCC there were sales at 80% drilling right but it wasn't it was one we were focusing on specific situations yeah well like I know okay I need to work on attacking the back and either exposing hooks or getting to finish so we would orchestrate a sequence I would shoot you would sprawl spin take my back I would roll try again you buy you encounter and then I'll do this and it was orchestrated but then we would do it at a hundred percent yeah so it felt like alive but it was a lot safer because I knew what was gonna happen you knew what was gonna happen and we would go through this sequence that we would always vary the situation okay the next day we're gonna add this twist to it and then the next day another twist to it and those drill sessions were brutal there are the most exhausting thing ever and like you said going into you're like oh crap alright yeah really psych yourself up because well life people when they drill I know what Bob hates us too is like delay okay and hey you know how does he work today and you like like no that's BS right that's not drilling you know to me that's kind of useless to me the drilling is hundred percent intensity so you're going at it and it'll be back and forth and we would do like a hundred reps each just boom boom boom you know the control thing you mentioned don't quote me on this because I'm nosy girl Cano historian but I've heard that when he invented contests for longevity yeah he wanted it when you're in the 40s 50 60 s continue to practice without getting thrown on your head live all the time which is not realistic when you reach that age right so that's why he invented kata is a way to keep your checking sharp it's still practice you know if you do you think judo caught this but they're like they're actually getting thrown but it's all controlled like your describe its coordinated yeah it's something that it's almost like yeah it's it's there's a you know coordinated sequence that we go back and forth on right which makes sense you know I think going live is think wrestling and judo in general are very damaging to the body yeah I think that that's one reason why they drill so much because if they went live all the time sound like Thai fighting if you went live a hundred percent everyday in Thai fighting you would have a two year career yeah you know you'd be done whereas Brazilian Jujitsu has the advantage of I can go live with you guys 100% you might get hurt here and there it's gonna happen but it's nothing like wrestling Thai boxing some of these other martial arts Brazil just was controlled enough on the ground that you can clash with someone at a high intensity at a high pace and not getting injured every day yeah yeah with way we're saying that the fine line I find in that situation is subconsciously we absorb information with everything we're doing like someone's it's conscious most of its subconscious so if we're doing it as like a sequential pattern even if you've like you feel free determined okay this is what's gonna happen it's a hundred percent your body is going to absorb information in that and react according to that situation and a lot of the time you don't want to like the fine line is like you don't want to start absorbing stuff that's going to make you react in an instant the wrong way like let's say he shoots be a leg and your reaction was to sprawl he goes around your back and it does something else but what happens if you like you practice that so much that you start reacting like that who shoots me like he starts picking these things apart okay I know when he shoots from my leg he's practices so much that he automatically sprawl so I'm gonna fake shoot four legs straight to the you know headlock or something like that I think people can start getting figured out a lot quicker that drill a lot more because they they have developed patterns that are you know that you don't have complete control over and like sometimes it might be right it might be the most common situation that happens which you know with someone that's not a like I would call them a tactician like it's a specialist and there's like a kind of tactician the tactician will try thinking you out a specialist will just do what they do and I think with the tactician 's like myself will start trying to predict certain patterns that people do and they start figuring that out and for me it's always like the longer I've rolled with someone the better it's been for me because I figured those kind of patterns out and generally the people that drill more have more of those patterns and I would see that with like you gather like different I got to go as a travel over the world you see like there's one instructor that's like is a Delahaye then they're all as they leave guys just under you know they practicing the same thing is that's all they're being taught there or they they just learn by example you yet I like if I was to do what you were doing what I would spend more time doing is let's say someone starts on a single leg and I'm and then then we go go go and then I've got to try and figure it out and like try and work these things out and you know it takes me beyond it takes me down and what I what I found that was really beneficial with this was style is every bit of the information is real it's every leg there's nothing like I'm never I'm not telling ok you do this now I want it to be real and to do that you've obviously got to have good partners I if I was training with guys that weren't they good I probably gonna have to do what you were saying okay just sprawl like this because this is what most people are going to do just in case they're just flopping back yeah but every bit of live information and all the whole loop of feedback is all real and what I would do is I would start in the leg and at first I would suck and they would sprawl out on me and go and see me or whatnot but after a while I'd start figuring that I well if I bring my shoulders up here it's harder to get guillotine if I hold my hands like this instead of like this it's easier on my arms you know you kind of start figuring out these little things that make everything a lot easier and then I got to the point well I know that if I get you know 80% or 90% of people on that single leg I'm gonna take them down and I'm not gonna get submitted so then I'm like okay well now I've got the confidence to know that if I get that single leg I'm going to take them down so then I would I would figure out a creative ways of getting to that single leg where I feel like most people start from the shooting part and they shooting they get sprawled on squished or if they got the leg they just get destroyed and they lose a lot of confidence like what am I gonna shoot cause he's gonna sprawl on my face but I feel like you can you can kind of hack that by starting at the back end of something and like four it could be even taken the back it could be like submitting someone from the back and yes so you like kids are great with this I know another instructor that's got great kids and what he does is he would like start them on the back I think it's so good at choking that they just they like I want to get the back because I know I'll finish it you say it's so creative and and they figured out their own little ways of finding the back you see that confidence is a huge element like once you start believe and that's why it's so important that you actually get that like get that repetition and like a conscious choking someone out I feel that some of my biggest leaps introducing this is contrary to what a lot of people believe was trained with the same person over and over and over and the reason for that is like we've reached these roadblocks it's like a stalemate but that would force me to elevate the bar in that position to the point where I was so confident when I got that that's that's when you develop a game so to speak right I'm in your half guard every day can't pass can't pass can pass I figure something that does your half guard you it's an arms race right you figure something out that stops that pass and so on so now the bar has been elevated so high in that specific situation when I go to competition I'm like you're Roger Gracie doing this choke right here literally yeah this chakra is like is the first thing you learn as a white belt a hundred percent agree I wanted to set myself I'm glad you did I think that a lot of people and it's a misinterpretation that competition is is a dictator who's the best grappler is it's not really because you can have let's say you guys trying to get every day you develop so much information on a particular area but then I've worked on something very different than you've never seen before and I come into competition I choke your straight away doesn't that mean on the better under better yeah it's just something that you're unaware of him yet but if we trained together you figured that kind of stuff out and suddenly it's very different I think that people for example like at the ATCC on the weekend yeah walking comes in there works a suspicious specific specific attacking on the legs I know he was working on a different sort of style of it and the guys is fighting a unbelievably good guys and and if you put like their records compared to Laughlin's they're much but Lachlan found a tiny little area that they allowed him to play in that Lachlan has better you know more experience and better leg locks than what they do so he could take advantage of that and competition is exploitable you know everywhere like that you'll see some guy coming like Craig when you first come in destroyed everyone on the leg looks people start figuring it out and now this but he's still doing really well but he's had to evolve and change the other things so I think it's a hundred simple you said is perfect is you need someone that you know you get to here then they change and you keep evolving and then you you're using the Socratic method of why can't I pass it is to get more and more information and then obviously you look at the best teams and this is where I think people get really mistaken and I'm not gonna name names but they say this guy's the god of teaching and stuff like that look at all these guys down like yeah animal this guy started here this guy started he discussed are they're all black belts and I come together and they're all getting really good yeah so I put him in the same vial they're gonna be here that's Frank as I like MIT brother suck is it to me like the whole the go thing that seems to be a term I didn't know what that was like six six months ago like every time I go on Instagram there's goat this and goat that and it is like a like a dictatorship where people wanted to thing at hierarchies that's how humans are we set a hierarchy of the best submission it's a typical white bone questioner I was the best take down what they're really saying is like I really wanted to have this much information I don't want to hold on to all that other stuff that's too much right what's the best one so we have this obsession with like all these things like the best coach or the best technique or the best fighter talk about how you feel good I feel I have a suspicion you're gonna agree with you guys gonna agree with me on this one it's how arbitrary that is to name someone like the best of all time because you already think about it there's so much going on and it's very so much overtime and it's so unfair with the second place which sometimes is like half a second slower than the first yeah and one remember second s and he's just as what he might be even better but he had like yeah I'm not arguing with his girlfriend that morning and I kind of ruin his day but no one's gonna remember that guy even though he was only like a half a second slower I said the same thing when Hodja beat buchecha maybe two years ago when I had that super fight yeah and everyone's like Hajj is so much better than chess I listen yeah you know he got him to a good start and he finished he doing like Hajj is amazing I'm not taking anything away from you yeah definitely one of the best ever it is not like it doesn't mean as much as what people think yeah and I've been saying I when I fought I fought Garry tonin metamoris and he guilty me really quickly and just got a good and I got you know people just like man kids enrolled more with Nevers it would change a lot of evolved something very different he's a great grappling I'm not trying to say that I'm beating like that but the the outcome is is very different to you know what's really going on there like you said there's so many different little things that may and you can shoot and slip on a little bit of sweat and that's why you didn't get your leverage and suddenly he's on your neck got a silver yeah and I think there is a lot going on there and people I think fans in particular which like the more the beginners they tend to be less mature in this regard and they make a lot of judgments based off of like you know these small pieces of information or clitter this person is much better than the second place because he finished in 10 seconds yeah that's how dominant he is like it doesn't work yeah you weren't so fickle and especially if you see like an MMA like if someone gets knocked out my god he's done yeah you know like I quit I could just lost a fight you know and now I'm just there's people like up he sucks he was exposed but you know you've never really any good you know Adesanya was a true genic tend to be the less educated to like its poorest like they're most opinionated there's a quote that I love it oh my my favorite quotes of all time at Bertrand Russell and goes like this the problem with the world is that smart people are full of doubt and stupid people are full of confidence you know is it that way he's like I felt like when I was at Bluebell that's why I was the most confident about my DJ so yeah when I was a blue belt like I got this I got like five half guard sweeps I'm good but it as you get better that's when you're like oh man look you put your humble hat on and you learn these lessons right yeah but I feel like anime fans were probably the worst example they're so because they're so opinionated yeah you know I've never stepped foot in the gym the thing is it's also easier to follow right like a sport like jiu-jitsu is a lot more complicated and I just grab the random guy and like okay explain what's going on between you know I'm gonna send me and whoever else doing forum Bulow's they have no idea so they can't really comment as much and they're not gonna probably watch so like the only people watching her like you said people who actually train so they're knowledgeable so they tend to be a little better as a fan you know whereas an MMA anybody can watch it and say all that guy's punching him he's windy and pretty much that's how the judging works all the guys on top he's winning yeah so I think that's why we'll give a road not a lot of knuckleheads that just don't really know what's going on and they'll just say whatever they think okay so with competency their lack of like depth and analysis is that they will try to compensate by being very very confident to make it sound convincing yeah because you know people are if I speak with confidence sometimes you can see the most obnoxious things when you speak with confidence people like they tend to believe cuz a lot of times people aren't analyzing what you're saying they're looking at body language the tone of your voice icon that's how con artists get away with this to do look you in the eye and they'll tell you exactly what you want to hear and they sound so convincing it's like you shut off your analytical brain and you let your you know yeah and you you you you emotionally you want to listen to that you want or that what you want that to be true right so you fall for it and I think that I almost feel like people that are overconfident about their statements about fighting in general so we have make it up with the fact that they haven't given a lot of thought yeah I don't have you've seen the new Joker film anyone I want to see okay when you see it you'll see there's a similar thing in that where I don't want to say it now because I want to rule for you perfect is that you'll see the same theme in that where a lot of people just follow someone for the wrong reasons and not really know why yeah and sometimes these guys don't even mean to be you know leaders and they're not really like they say like I could say something and have no meaning to it and someone takes it and get the kid said this stuff looks like yeah I was [ __ ] high when I said that is my gravy you know like it could have been I was saying it in context and people do this all the time in politics or you know social media they take something you said completely out of context and then that's what they judge you by and stuff like it's just a horrible situation and I feel like you guys are spot-on with that anyone can follow mixed martial arts because anyone knows what a flight looks like so most of people that are following it and never done it most people are not going to sit there and follow a comment on jujitsu if they've never done it because it looks it looks messy and not very enjoyable in this you know what's going on yeah yeah MMA it's simple enough so people understand yeah you know you can push in the head you're losing if you're not if you're punching you're winning it's very generally speaking in their minds which is normally the truth if you're on top you're waiting if you're bottom you're losing and so on where'd you just attempt to be far I mean I'm my mom was before Micro Hall like till this stage he hasn't no idea was wedding I know expectant app that's that's their problem yeah do just it to be a complicated with with way set and I feel like we could all probably associate with this as competitors it's very frustrating because a lot of people don't see what's going on behind the you know behind the scenes I've had matches where I haven't trained all month and I've had to compete I've been injured you've had injuries about surgeries about surgeries and injuries it's it's really tough because you know that the guys are sitting there and judging you know doesn't matter what you've done you go out there and you make one mistake out there you suck why mother is even relevant anymore why would this they don't really realize that hey you know my elbows are straight a little bit and anymore my left knee I've got no cartilage in this left knee I've had surgeries I've got you know I don't have that you know you're looking at and look Nicky rods a great example of this where it doesn't have a lot of jiu-jitsu Greg wrestling physically amazed very athletic yet and you put him with a guy that's much better than him technically but whatever physicality and he's still gonna make him look [ __ ] you know I mean he's gonna destroy him and then people be like oh that guy sucked like I think people sang about cyborgs and Szabolcs octa stuff it's like no it's not so disrespect yeah blows my mind you know but uh yeah man I think that I always remind myself like beware of the little man man like sometimes that it's that the highly opinionated people and sport like I try to I mean it's a thick majority of fans that they feel a very opinionated like that but you guys just gotta I tried I told myself not to take it too seriously they're probably mostly white belts I think you do a really good job of that I watched you know sitting and look and I try not to comment or lock anything as well but I think you did really good I'm just being I bite my tongue something I actually know I think the best time the way to talk to trolls in general is to try to be respectful and understand their position and try to explain to them why they're wrong and I find that a lot of times when I do that I unarmed them because they want to talk [ __ ] and I'm not good at talking [ __ ] I suck at it I did it once with not good at it you know I got it's not something if I were I probably I would probably avoid it anyway but I think that's what you know as you know your your personality and you know I feel that a lot of people would aren't them to attack you regardless of how well you do in your life and you know what I'm talking about but I think the best way to deal with this is just to be respectful I understand their position and explain to them as reasonably as possible why they're wrong yeah you see struggle whether you inbox you and they become your best friend not the time yeah I say no the message you miss things are like I want to say private for me yeah and they were just guy was like talking mad [ __ ] yeah it happens all the time it because sometimes when people are going they just want the attention and I've had people who talk crap and then you know just like [ __ ] sing I've always used that same approach hey kill them with kindness yeah right and then they're like oh you know I was just joking or I didn't mean that or I'm really actually a fan of yours or you know they it always changes right like and if people want to start [ __ ] with you and you're not engaging with them it's like punching air yeah and there's a steam really fast it's like oh there's I wanted a conflict and this guy's not giving it to me I'm gonna move on now yeah I used to first I mean I'm being a hater as well and I would like to be on the other end of that you see people doing really well and you feel just so insecure by this success so like you go in there and you'll you've write something to hope that it puts them down a little bit makes them feel a little bit more like you and it doesn't elevate their self trying to bring yeah you try and bring it down and so now being in the other position and at first it wasn't like I didn't really react well at first anytime someone attack not attack back and I would try and you know trying it won over them and embarrass them you know but now I try and just either ignore them and it's a lot easier to ignore or try and reply kindly and I get this sorta yeah it's [ __ ] and people think it's easy to react it's like it's not that's like no it seems like a form of meditation so far it's an exercise it's training that's what I told myself sometimes if I can keep my composure when I'm about to lose it it's like a form of mental training like I make it myself more in control of mine because I ultimately I would love to be in complete control of my emotions I'm not but I strive for that like I like to I think in motion has a place in everything you do it's it's normal and healthy to get angry sometimes I think there's a roof there's a reason why nature that programs us with all these like things like like anger like I think they do play a role in society but I would like it to be something I control entirely so when I see these challenges it's almost like it's training it's hard training biting your tongue on someone's attacking you and sold it specially they're full of it and you know they're full of it it's it's like lifting heavy weights man just making you strong yeah you know at the other day where people say to you or generally there's a little metaphysical but I think it's just a reflection of their own opinions and themselves that they draw on you you know so I always felt like the martial arts in general is about self mastery right and that means using yourself as the barometer of your skill and you are as a person that you can't tell me who I am that's something only I can do so if you're gonna talk crap about me doesn't really bother me right if you allow other people's opinions to affect you you'll never be at peace because there's no matter who you are there's always someone that hates you yeah I mean pretty nice guy not cool I don't know you talk those piece yeah you can't win that you know argument is that's when you require for self validation and you need other people to give you the validation you're gonna be miserable for your whole life yeah you know that you need to be able to it's really because in the day man and sure you guys are like it's you're spinning a hundred percent of your day with yourself and if you're not content with what's in there it doesn't matter what the world thinks of you if they think the world of you are absolutely nothing of you it makes no difference because you spend 100 percent of your day with yourself you got to look inside and go I'm completely happy with what's in there yeah right and what you're not happy about you got to change and then we're all working on that I got many things about myself I'm sure you guys could be working on right but I think that's what it comes down to so why guys right tell myself like no don't don't take it too seriously you know but you sometimes I think we all do like there's things em you know everyone's got a button you know and I have my own but while I get something that I think like it's a martial artists journey like it's part of your evolution and the beautiful thing is I thought martial arts was only about technique but now I see this other side of like it's not improving on yourself because you're constantly confronted in these situations and they have to do with controlling your emotions competition is one aspect of this right but it's it there's so much more going on as as far as your development as a human being I think a lot of people struggle with understanding that it's not just in sport in acting especially like anything that we are praised for what you do and then suddenly I met it's always going to dissipate for example like you can do really well when I first come into jiu-jitsu I had a lot of praise because you know I came out of nowhere and I was one of the first Australians to do really well and and I would do a lot of comedy stuff so they liked me and then when I started moving away from did it soon and I wasn't doing as well I wasn't competing as much suddenly though you don't have that kind of respect that you used to get that made you feel really good like a lot of like my confidence at the beginning was superficial because it was based on my environment who was talking to me he was saying these things about me and I think actors have very similar situation when they don't really well in a big movie there's suddenly a star and then they haven't had a movie for five six years and suddenly no one really cares as much as much about them and they start doing you know drugs or party or anything that gives them that kind of high that they use forgetting I think it's important I'm hoping that anyone that's watching that's going through that progression or in any area life understands not to get too attached to that because will always fade and if you get attached to that you're going to get attached to the opposite when it does come I think it's important to enjoy it down the center because an addiction yeah it is like I compared a lot of these feelings is attached what they're talking about to a drug like crack yeah crack must feel incredible because people get honor they can never get we must been doing it to be drill like people it's I'm sure that there's a reward to that but there's a cost as well right and this is where when I when I'm talking about being in control like that's that's what I'm talking about it's like not allowing anything that is addicting to be out of your control yeah you know and sometimes I see like guys like Connor did stuff like throwing a trolley at a bus or something and I think it's intentional I think he knows exactly what's gonna happen you know he's gonna lose out on money but he's so addicted to the headline he's got to do something yeah right like a be fighting every month you can't he can't he can't do it right he's gonna fight once a year once every two years whatever but he wants to get a headlight every week yeah so for you to do that you got to get married to a new celebrity every other week you got to be beating someone up breaking something like sturdy sure because if you were active in like a normal human being normal was not entertaining yeah I think I was thinking that the other day I'm looking at him in a mine he's got so much money now doesn't need to worry about money he's already slitted him solidified himself as one of the greatest martial artists why is he still fighting and I was trying to think I said he doesn't need the money isn't so it is yeah yeah I think Jim Morrison said I can't remember the exact quote but it was something along the lines of like Fame is like an addiction you know what it's killing you but you can't get rid of it either and you know I was like he wasn't it was destroying and he knew it but he was like so deeply it is like it's enticing I like like if I walk somewhere it sounds like can I get a photo with you and it feels good you know I mean I got a try like I tried now to not you know get attached to that and I know especially because I've had like like the success in jiu-jitsu and now I'm going in a film and I know as that builds up that's going to be amplified you know a hundred times there's a lot more people watching and filming what there isn't injured Itza right now and I really got to make sure I stay on to that because I know that could definitely lead me down the wrong well you know one thing that really helps I've never been in that situation but I would imagine is having a solid network of people around you kind of reminding you who you really are putting you back in your place ever knowing that I could be a wife brother a dad a mom like someone you can trust it kind of like bringing you back to earth you know they feel like a lot of people they go down that rabbit hole or people that have the wrong people around them mm-hm you know I I'm bit like that like if I have the right people around me I feel like the sky's the limit anything I do there's nothing I can do right in my head and then when I have the wrong people around me it's I feel that like I feel like Manny like impotent like I'm crippled like I can you know some Verdi to me that that's sort of emotional connection to super important to me and I've been in situations in my life where when the right people around me do like I would ADCC the wrong people around me man like my life just goes down the spiral and I mean they've talked about this like that the social aspect of anyone's career not just fine I'm sure it's the same in acting music whatever you do it's such an important element of the equation don't talk about it yeah but like there's this whole foundation behind anyone successful that people don't always see like how do you I mean do you feel you you you care you're very successful guy in jiu-jitsu now and acting and how do you feel about that I think you hit the nail on the head there it's like something that you never get taught you don't understand and you kind of it's so important and it's been really difficult for me for I've been traveling for the last couple years I've been an LA now for a year which is been great and it's the same sort of thing you kind of like you're meeting new people in LA is very different to most areas in the world it's because most people have moved there and they want to make something of themselves and the number one commodity in LA is you know who do you know and how money do you have so everyone's pretending to have a lot of money and pretending to know everyone and be able to help you so yeah I felt I fell for that few times was the worst people when acting like they have ever the worst HOF always so it's it's a bit of a filtering system right now about who's genuine and who's not yeah and I've you know currently doing that at the moment but before that was travelling around the world which is I mean it's great for experience but it's very hard to have the right people around me and that's why I like for the ATCC which is the last competition I ever trained for so years ago I went to you guys to have the right people around me and I did really well I was very happy with that I was unlucky I'd homologue first round we went over time I felt like I was winning the match and then you know he end up putting me in a crank and breaking my teeth now it's amazing I felt like I could have you know done quite well in addition and because I had you guys are happy to help if I didn't have that there's no way I would have done it as well it's crazy how important is I'm sure like Dave we talked about this like how about him and his brother were you know your father seemed to be pretty present too like I I've always felt like I've done better like I was saying like I've always done better whenever I had that coach or that person next to me and it's crazy because like fighters in off corner a lot of MMA fighters at the highest level and they're even though they're the toughest human beings I know in a lot of ways like a lot of times like emotionally they there's a huge void there man like it's like it's it's not it's not when you're coaching them you're not just there for technical support I actually feel that's a smaller number yeah it's it's there it's course it's important being a good coach on the technical level but I find that a lot of times in jiu-jitsu an MMA the guys who are called the best coaches aren't really necessarily technical wizards it's more the father figure the emotional support is just being like a man everything's gonna be okay I'm right there right next to you man you're gonna warm up we're gonna win that fight that's huge yeah yeah you know because what you're saying everybody says are fighting his individual sport it's like no not really right you might fight there alone physically but you're carrying a team on your back where that team's supporting you because you didn't train yourself yeah you have a lot of people train you and there's just so much pressure and stress when you go to compete that having a good coach helps take some of that stress away from you they make you a little bit more at home you know they're yeah they're loud they take some of that load from you so that you can just focus on one thing you know yeah I agree with both views and I think another I mean I think our reasoning behind that is if you look at martial arts for example if you wanna make money doing martial arts you know there's a million ways you could do it make money more money without taking the amount of damage and have to put as much work as you will put into martial arts the same thing in acting it's like the people that really follow that route are usually obsessed with something or running away from something and for me for example go to martial arts because I was petrified I had no confidence I was very scared so I wanted to do something to give me that I think a lot of people got into martial arts and they may be socially awkward they may not have any kind of intelligence outside of martial arts and suddenly they become really good and people start listening to them but the [ __ ] they're talking is like there's no value at all that's a lot of time I mean we're all soos it's not the same thing actors get up there and they start talking about stuff they have no idea about because and they look you're an amazing actor because you've put all this time in acting but you didn't put any time into anything else oh yeah your value that you have is in teaching acting stick to that some people obviously like yourselves have much more value everywhere else but there's a lot of people that do that and I think because you know to to really put their work in to become an actor to become a martial artist to become one of the best in the world you have to put so much work in and sacrifice so much of most normal people that are quite content and not going to do that if you were quite happy with who you are and what you're doing I'm probably never going to become martial artists yeah there's gonna be some reason to push you we have yeah agree I think there's a like Rob I mentioned it before to it there's a progression and like I started martial arts for the same reason self-defense but then the purpose changes yeah I think someone had posted on Instagram what's the point of trained martial arts what not it's like well for me I think most people's path usually starts self-defense based at some point but then it starts to change as you get more involved right let you start competing or you start trading a lot and then it's like oh now I just want to get better I want to prove myself and that's what competition is really all about it's proving yourself and you're putting a how challenging for you to see what you made oh it's the good eagle yeah we had Mike Moosa messy you're a wild we're talking about ego Ikey goes one of those things if you steer it in the right direction and you internalize it right like not yet you've constantly in a state of being upset at yourself for not being better that's a huge catapult that's a trampoline because those seconds over tell you the secondary content why what right what yeah there why push that threshold if you're content squatting 200 or whatever you know 10 like if I train with you and I tap you once and I'm completely okay with that what is the likelihood of meet Avenue twice tomorrow yeah you see it I'm saying like I'm you complete and it's so convenient like this is one of probably marthy and they've talked about this all the time but it's such a a an important aspect of your growth as a martial artist or anything you do is not to be accepting of where you currently stand yeah yeah that's yeah I was gonna say the I think to that for me now the point has changed again right because I'm not competing anymore I'm not going out there to prove myself anymore it's now about self mastery right now I'm trying to build the best me that I can possible dieting I'm starting to do weight training I fixed my knee fix my shoulder I'm trying to take care of myself for the long haul now right I think ultimately that's one of the ultimate goals once you mature yourself into much for arts because that's the goal that translates to all aspects of your life all right like everybody can be better there's never a point where you like oh I've achieved perfection it hasn't happened for anybody yet so I feel that's like the most mature goal that you can have and that's what I'm striving to do you know and I think a lot of people have it skewed now because the rise of social media and how easy it is to be famous are not easy but like it's accessible to anybody you know there's a time before internet where like to get on TV you had to have some amazing connections and know the right people yeah I think now you can build your own celebrity with good content yeah you know which is a which is awesome because it gives kind of an equality now like if you have powerful content Radek yeah it's open up but you going back to say that you you you hit the nail on the head you said I'm about self-improvement I think a lot of people they have their idea of success is what's wrong because success does not to me at least maybe we different people kind of afraid I didn't disagree but success to me is what you said being a better version of yourself every day right whereas a lot of people think success is like how much money you have whatever you know and I don't never felt that like a I always thought that a shallow pursuit for a martial artist I think yeah I was getting to that because what's happened now when me and you got into the sport there was no money in it there's no fame you were essentially going into someone's garage something is to fight just because you wanted the challenge but now it's like there is money there is fame in anime and somewhat in grappling so you might get into it just to become famous you know like people who you know in high school and they want to be in the NFL because they're like oh that's my meal ticket right you know I don't have I don't come from a good upbringing I have a good education but I'm athletic I can go into football and make something of myself all right so I think now there's some of that in martial arts so that's why I call it conscious between a fighter and a martial artist where a fighter is like an athlete he's just there because he's trying to be the best to make as much money be as famous as possible whereas the martial artist is someone who like has gone through the whole journey and they're in it for the long haul it's an evolution yeah I didn't think I mean I'm sure you didn't think like that 20 years ago you know yeah this is the this is a situation I mean at the moment where I like competing because I step outside my comfort zone and I know feel like I grow every single time it's not so much for me it's not really about winning anymore I'm gonna be great to win but I definitely don't care about it near is what much is what most people do for example if I really cared about it I'll be training three times a day I don't strengthen conditioning I probably don't steroids as well and I've been doing everything I could to like to to make sure that I win but for me it's more about the just growing as a human and having fun because I feel like now I don't have the pressure to like to compete really well I'm doing it and I'm enjoying a lot a lot more the problem on the other hand is I'm also an online coach and I and I teach too soon I teach seminars and I don't want people to misinterpret my ability to compete now in my broken state that I am physically and think oh that's what you know that's what it is and stuff like that so that's kind of one thing that pushes me away from competition as much because I know how heavy you're judged on and people don't understand what's going on people don't know like oh that they just see you lose they don't realize okay he got you know he hasn't been trained for six weeks cuz he got a knee injury and whatnot and I still want to compete as I like competing even if I'm not super fit but that's the the situation I'm in right now and that's probably why I step it I'm stepping away from competing so much and more and working on the coaching because I find I have a lot more enjoyment from I get a lot more enjoyment it's better for me to teach someone would help someone get better than what it is for me to compete and show what I you know my skills on a stage anymore I just don't have that that driving that passion but that's the situation I mean that's why I feel like I'm moving away from competition and I'll still train them when I do but it'll be more for my own enjoyment the thing is that what a beautiful place it is to be able to train jiu-jitsu and not have to you know it's not a life and death situation if you win or lose because I feel like I'm in that transition now after retirement and I actually like to Jitsu more in a lot of ways now cuz like before like if someone passed my card I'd be like it's the end of the world you know like yeah no seriously I've been lose my if someone scored a point I mean practice I lose it now I care but not that much yeah I cared less in other ways and I think that as a competitor is a horrible way of thinking not carries you're a competitor fight to control [ __ ] yeah it should care yeah on a very deep level should mean something you or is now it's like it's it's I enjoy it for what it is it's not a means to an end in the digits because is becoming slowly to me personally an end in itself yeah yeah and you guys obviously have other things that you're working on and building on yourself and you can't spend all your time just doing jiu-jitsu if you want to develop as a human you know in every other area I think you know Judas has got to be a you know a part of it of course it doesn't have to be but it is part of it but there's so many different areas that you know we're working in and for me like I'm trying to work through the the film industry right now not just as an actor but I want to I want to write more I want to learn how to direct eventually and you know and probably get more in producing and stuff eventually so there's so many things I need to learn in that area that takes away my time from being able to spend in that but you know it's the same problem everyone has but that's I think the biggest problem I've had in my career is I've always had five or six different things that I'm doing rather than just one I felt like if I if I just let's say if it was just jujitsu the whole time I feel like I you know could have had a you know resume similar to yours and stuff like that but because not saying because but I had a lot of other things so I feel like I definitely didn't do as well as what I could have and some people sort of asked me that they do you feel like that it doesn't bother me too much till they ask me that but you know I do have other things I think that for me once the film and stuff blows up and Susteren really well I'll be a lot more satisfied with okay I'm glad I did that but at the moment it's like I've I had something I'm building I'm kind of leaving it there to go something down here that's like really nothing and if there's a power from that that takes courage it's hard to do yeah but you're starting a new journey you know I think I think you said that after you've been on a certain path for a while it's not as stimulating because you've seen more there dimension gains right like so you're starting a new path and I'm sure you're gonna kill it but I I did want to ask you about the online coach because I know that time that you transitioned into and you've done really well with it and I think you also offer a very unique perspective as a most instructional courses and online stuff they're focusing okay learn XYZ technique like this whereas I pleasure joining you in a seminar and you're teaching it and it's a very very different approach where you're doing more about like you said the Y of certain concepts and it's kind of open-ended you know so I think it was kind of a very unique twist on things I don't know you can yeah about like how did you I guess go into that teaching mode because most people don't really teach specifically that way like you know even myself like I do teach like certain concepts when I teach like a Kimura tie like that but it's not completely conceptual like yours as well and I think that straight away I teach like that because that's the way I like to teach and that's the way I learn jujitsu so I prefer to teach more theoretically than practically I think there's just so many people doing the practical stuff like you saw some amazing coaches that can teach you technically and most likely better than what I can teach technically but I have gone to a niche part of the industry that most people don't focus on which is like the the theoretical aspect of GD to an understanding jujitsu so I feel like most people are teaching people what to do I'm trying to teach people why they should do that and I'm also trying to look at teaching people how to learn I think like one of the most important things in learning anything is learning like understanding how you actually learn how does my brain you know figure this out how does my brain absorb this information so I've tried to really sort of corner that market of the game and steer away from techniques cuz it occasionally someone will ask me like why don't you do some technique stuff it's up it's already they've got the techniques there but if you want the mental stuff that's more what I do you know they've got the mental stuff I think its first of all it's far more important I think it's it's the biggest so it's the most important thing in the whole equation areas what is how do we you know how to get your mind ready to win right there's a number of factors that go into that and we can talk about that some other thought but like there's a hyper focus on the technique I feel like everyone's like obsessed if I only learn one more sweep from open guard then I win a world title I'm like dude you can have two sweeps or one and still when it's there's this although this other stuff but the thing about this to psychological ask me you're talking about I'm a curious to your product is like I I don't often Millie with it but like it is difficult to teach because you're talking about concepts and you know a lot of it goes back to how to emotions too and now your mind is wired and some people I think they really struggle with competition and you know being competitive I gotta have people like walk up to make a rob I know you're talking about I did ing people are competitive I just can't do it and they're trying you can see they're trying to change that about themselves but they really struggle and it's that the psychological aspect is the most important but it's hard to teach yeah yeah I think with that you have to lead by example more than anything and I definitely don't try and teach people to get into like that competitive mindset it's more what I try and teach people is to understand how they learn things and how their brain works and why certain things will help you and to how to maximize your training to get the best results and I feel like at the moment most people and it's like the 8020 rule that Wilfred I pray to pray to come up with it 20% of your results come from 80% of your actions and 80% of your results come from 20% of your actions so I feel like I've found a good position and a good area that I can tell you what that 20% is and get you to throw away the other 80% that gives you such little returns and focus mainly on what that is which is skill acquisition which is what we talked about the start just basically creating better problem solvers which then creates better artists because you you go through it yourself so all I'm really trying to do is create a platform to help people get the best out of themselves because I think a lot of people get they get mistaken by trying to mechanically get the best out of someone like I'm gonna teach you how to get you know how to be the best you way you can't do that or you can do is create a safe and environment for them to develop that themselves so I'm trying to do that I just I've just created a product that's about most my products like one hour long and is more specific on certain areas like the art of learning jiu-jitsu was basically explaining my methodology of learning and how to change the way you look at jiu-jitsu to maximize results and it blew up we sold I think 15,000 copies of that we should do something because what you're saying that is something I've always believed in I've always thought and I thought about in an open guard DVD and I'm going why on earth what I do it you know many times it's been done you know I can't compete with how fileman is there I'm not gonna be honest with you I can you know but I feel that you know what you're describing is something maybe you can add something that is more important yeah I open the window because maybe they don't get all of it right kit but if if they sometimes I don't this has happened you guys someone says something and it opens like a whole new set of doors like never thought about that writes a concept that he goes and a whole world expands right in front of you and that's huge man if you can do you know and I understand that your conceptual base like and I I could see why you're apprehensive of drilling because drilling doesn't generally encourage creativity yeah like I said those sequence I'm talking about it's all orchestrated already right and in some of these drills I don't know all the drills like that but again generate inspiration yeah which i think is a good thing so I think and I'm not as against drilling is what most people do is more like it's a fun thing and like that the whole no drilling I never ever enforced no one let it really control what my son's can do it was like I made it I thought it was funny yeah I think that like looking at and I look at what you guys do and I'm not necessarily let's say and if you show me something I'm not gonna go back and drill heaps but I'm gonna look at it and I'm gonna think like think about it it's gonna be inspiration for when I'm in that position then I've got like something I know it's available and I might be able to take half of it go I really like that half of it but your legs are a little bit longer here so it's probably gonna create more issues here and and just you know it's just it's all inspiration for me and I think so I think techniques are great for that and I'm definitely not against that and I think that you know people with technique videos buy those videos I never say don't don't buy someone's videos because they're they're telling you to drill and do that but don't go crazy with the drilling trying to understand why those techniques work which is a thing that most coaches really struggle to to ensure to articulate and I know you guys don't because I remember when I first especially first come to you and you and cabaco were there and I'd love the way you guys were teaching because you explaining like why we're doing certain things and more what was going through your head than just what you're physically doing and you're the same you helped me a lot with the wrestling with that and I wish more coach of coaches would focus on that and that's kind of like the the new product that I've got and I haven't named it yet but it drops on the 12th of October it's gonna be five and a half hours long and it's going to basically cover like all my all the reason why I trained the way I am how to do it yourself how to basically structure your training to get the best out of yourself I'm not pretending that I'm going to like you know create any little clones of me that's not at all what it's about it's about giving you the same information that I had to get my black belt for you so that you can do the same thing if not better you know however you want to do it but that's what more it's like a theory it's more like a you know when you go into a lecture than what it is this heaps of you know physical stuff as well and I show you heaps of the techniques of why I'm doing it but I'm focusing mainly on the mental area of jiu-jitsu and I'm actually really pumped to to sell this I shot it with really good quality like I it cost me a fortune the production value is gonna be amazing we just shot all this b-roll footage to is that two days ago my body like a barely move now from it so it's gonna be like I try to model it on I don't know if you've ever seen the master classes online just the gyro master classes the same sort of I love it okay so they're fantastic like I watch the acting ones all the time directing ones there's food cooking ones I've tried to go basically model that which I feel like is a really good platform for learning up giving the ideas kit and yeah and then Robert are going to do one next but that is the next step and it's funny they mention that because the next step of this was because I think BJJ fanatics have done good in the technical side of things yeah but there's there's no I I myself I don't think anyone's really filming what we're talking and it's saturated yeah and there's one reason like we might do I think why don't you film Robin I'm like there was always part of me that I don't like doing what everyone else has done yeah I guess the part of me is like oh I like what you did right cuz you got to move that everyone knew but you created it in you put it in a in a structured way that really helps people map it out right and I like that I've never that I that approach I like but there's always a part of me like I'm this time showing something and no one's ever done before I don't want to do it yeah you know I'm saying like I'm more interested in being like you know I don't know just like original I guess yeah I want the one thing I want to do is this is your opportunity steal my my idea you tell me well I always wanted to do like something I've always done was taken the back with the person standing you know like off because I got the one that from work to do I get mad may say I want to do something like that for example right because people they don't know how to take the back when the person standing up they think I'll they jump everyone wants to jump you know I was like probably worst day you can do so like that's the kind of stuff that's to me is is actually but I love your approach because I feel it like we were discussing that people focus on the technical side to me it's like what color do you paint the wall and that's great if you want to paint it white brown black whatever color I think the structure the blueprint yeah there's a navigator behind yes that is the most important aspect and it's so hard to train and you know with me and Mikey and David we talked about this extensively but it was I think it's the key ingredient Mele that's the common denominator cuz I don't people that never drilled day of their life and when I know people who throw a lot and win how'd you guys I said the same interview recently cities like I never drill I was this specific training look at him but the common denominator I think is something else is well that's the strict we saw the color of the wall I would say one thing that's very important and this is why your your style teaching is so good is that you're focusing a lot on the mental aspect right and like Rob is saying I've been looks it's easy to understand a physical movement when you're watching them video like all but what you're not seeing is what's happening in here and this is arguably a lot more important because this is controlling everything else and it's one thing I didn't mentioned like when I'm doing my drills there's also an emphasis of what's going through my head as I do the drill you know so this is specific injury there's a lot going on here that I have to orchestrate at the same time because essentially I want to make a golfer the key thing is having the right mental state when they hit the ball if they can always get the same mental state they're gonna get the same result which is you know getting a whole one or whatever the case is the same thing goes with your fighting with your jiu-jitsu or anything in your life if you don't have the right mental state the physical actions are not gonna work right yeah so a lot of that the drilling that I do is focusing on that as well but the drilling by itself doesn't give you the mechanical understanding that neither you're teaching right reclining at replicating your replicates that's why we all time it doesn't inspire creativity in the sense that you're just doing this and you get good doing this but then you don't know the next thing because you don't understand the physics behind the move or the reasoning or the timing so it'll be exactly what you're saying I bet I used to sit there and I'd look at my friend next to me okay and I would see he's answer so I would put all these answers on me and then it comes a test day and I'd be there he's like 10 meters away somewhere literally wouldn't even fill it out the teachers are just know what's going on because I never really figured out the algorithm or the formula to those if I had of like being smarter I would say okay let me get my head around here or kid yes then I will then I'll work it out and that's what those kids and I think what what we're both touching on is there is a formula to everything at all and there is a formula to everything and most people have figured it out and I think with you try painting walls when I paint models as well but I don't understand the the color palette formula so I don't know what colors work with what but the really good people know that and they have that all this so they know that the greens and the Browns and they have an earthly color and they give you a certain feeling if we go to music okay you can I can I'll know how to imitate people's songs okay but I have no idea about music but if you look at the blue scale which is a certain scale if you learn that ix I think it's like 89 or 90 percent of all songs use the blue scale so you can find that as lusco yeah when we need it we need to figure that out my ID was someone told me a little bit but I wasn't interested enough to figure out the blue sky but if I did my guitar work would be a hundred times better and I think that what what all three miss off of that we really need to focus on is we know the scales the algorithms for what we do and that's what we need to give students rather than just showing okay this is the outcome I came up with we need to give them the information so they can come up with the same you know their own outcome and create their own artist because if you look at all three of us we're very unique we're not imitations of anyone you know your style is very unique my Styles unique your Styles unique and people need to understand that they have to do the same route if they want that mastery or anything like that that's the way it is there's no fast tracking it there's no copy these techniques and then you know drilled a copy these techniques and then you're going to be amazing no no you need that information behind there and you need to come up with yourself and that's why I feel like the conceptual route which which we all teach in and which I'm selling online is going to be the future of teaching jiu-jitsu and I think more and more people are starting to figure it out it's just you know there's a lot of people holding onto this oh oh it's it's it's it's hard okay because I sometimes like I'll bring it up in class and you can see if people are interested because they think they think they're recognized it's important but I'm not sure yeah we like how many things about yourself that you know you got to change you know what to do but you fall into the habits of making it like I don't think like that all the time right it's very difficult but I think it and we mean they were talking about this a while ago you just got to keep reminding yourself yeah remind yourself until you create that you know that that pathway in your in your brain and just it's just uh it's awareness right number one step getting caught in the try not getting caught in the triangle is recognizing your about the Equality yeah yeah and I think that as you teach the more you teach like that the more you start figuring out easy ways to to get your students to understand what you're saying and to really engage it when I when I first started teaching this way it would see the same sort of thing like people go listen earn and that wasn't really articulating it well now I want to do seminars it's great the people sitting like this like listening everywhere they like yes yes yes because I feel like I knew like at first I had to become self-aware of what was I doing and why was I doing it and then how can I give that to them and this there's amazing athletes everywhere that are not self-aware and if they can't give you know what they're doing to that student they have zero value in a coaching sense and I think that because I know you go so well I know you guys coach that it's a it is a waste for you not to to really get that stuff online more for more people to see because I know it's done we have a business discussion after this podcast David and Cara sit down put like an amazing probably know hundred percent agree with you yet I think that um well you know what overall I just a summer I the conversation I love the what we're talking about is over it's the evolution of the sport like how much it's evolved even like instruction now is getting to a much higher level my first instructor in Brazil and that you know it's the probably way he learned it was literally like go not even set the timer we just like you'd sit down and say go and you just grabbed her partners whoever it was and but watching from that to what we're talking about it's huge I mean we're talking about scientific research that is back in this methodology versus that methodology and you know I I really appreciate that evolution I I as a as a as a as a passionate practitioner of the sport I love how far we've come mm-hmm awesome a great great well kid thank you very much for participating this show that the people know where they could find your your new course thank you for having me it's been an awesome conversation I love hanging out with you guys I really appreciate it you can find my stuff at kicked out training com I have all my products there there's seven products and the new product I will be launching online so if you want to follow me a kit Dale official on Instagram or keep that on Facebook I'll be posting it about there but we're it's going to be a different platform that we put that we put that new product on because it's five and a half hours long we're gonna use a different program called teachable which will be okay thanks on the self which I'm super excited about so we'll put some links in the description as well awesome guys thanks for watching thank you for being here kit like he says was a lot of fun as on our best ones yet I had a blast and I'm sure we'll do this again you're in Hollywood so you have to come back here one of these days oh yeah yeah awesome guys all right take care [Music]