BTG 130 - For the Love of the Game

[Music] Hello and welcome to another episode of Breaking the Guard. On today's episode, I'm going to talk about some more old war stories. This one, my debut in the Grapplers Quest Pro Divisions. This must have [Music] been 200 twoish maybe 2003. Um, at the time my brother and I were competing a lot in Naga because that was the first uh grappling tournament to come down to South Florida and we were actually also ended up starting to promote our own Naga tournaments uh or co-promote I should say with Kipcola and as a result we started flying around to different places and my brother and I were doing really well winning most of the the tournaments that we're entering, whether they're absolutes or pro divisions, and our name started to get dropped in grappling magazine, uh, which was a big deal for us at the time cuz I I know at some point I was on the cover, which was pretty cool and had a lot of features and whatnot. There was then Grappula's Quest which was the main rival to Naga and at the time they were very adversarial to each other. So, as a grappler, I was like pretty much doing all Naga events exclusively until it was I think it was 2002 if I'm now I'm thinking right cuz it was the US trials qualifier and it was implying that there was going to be some type of world, you know, tournament and my brother and I were invited to do the US trials uh by Brian Simmons who was a creator Grappers Quest and you know we were excited accepted. I was going to be in light heavyweight my brother was going to be in lightweight and there was a lot of great names at the time. Pablo Popovich was doing like the middleweight uh and then Jeff Monson was doing heavyweight. And I recall at the time because on the forums online I think uh what was the one there was it wasn't MMA.tv TV. There was another one, NHB gear, which for you young guys, NHB gear would stand for no hold bar gear, right? But it was mainly a jiu-jitsu form even though it was called NHB. And a lot of people were talking, you know, saying that they were completely dismissing the odds that my brother and I would win this tournament because we are both considered bottom seed. And uh I had called for a clean sweep from the Florida team which you know my brother Pablo Povich me and Jeff Bonsson that that was my goal even though I wasn't training with you know Jeff or Pablo have actually competed against both of them but I just knew like the Florida team is is is very stacked. even though we weren't a team, I just made it as such. And uh we, you know, we make our way, we get there. And I can remember my first match was against Todd Margolus, who's a very good wrestler, also a Lloyd Irvin black belt. I believe it was the first time we actually, you know, encountered Lloyd Irvin because he was coaching uh Margolas. But I didn't know anything about uh really about him other than he was like the star of Grappa's Quest to a point that he sung the national anthem to get the event started which I thought was weird, right? And I was like, "What the hell is going on?" And to me, since that was his first match, I thought he's looking past me, right? if you know he can get up there and sing and have a good old time like he's clearly not dialed in because I'm going to be giving this guy that match of a lifetime. Uh, so the tournament starts. I do believe I go up first before my brother and I've covered this match if you seen on the breakdowns is a wrestling uh battle. And I was able to win this match by pure wrestling simply with takedowns. I was and if you watch the breakdown, I pretty much used under hooks exclusively to be able to win all the situations. And uh that was uh again an upset by Grappos standards, right? And I I think it was like 6 or 4, something to that effect. I got a few takedowns in and that set me up. Now I I think it was a eightman. I'm pretty sure it was a eightman. I know my second was with with Justin Bis I believe and uh I was able to beat him as well. I It's funny cuz when I watch the video I'm like man I almost got myself t taken down cuz he got a good clinch and I I just managed to last minute be able to throw him and uh once I got him on the ground he was in a lot of problems and I was able to cartwheel pass him, mount him and uh dominate the ground positions. and ended up winning that match. On the other side, my brother was also doing really well. He had to beat several black belts as well. And uh he did so, if I recall, without being scored on either. And in fact, neither of us were scored on in this entire tournament. We were able to dominate with our wrestling and with our guard passing to come out on top. And in the finals, I had another tough match against a really good guard player from Henzo Gracie. And oh man, the name is slipping me. It's going to come back because uh he was definitely a very tough customer. It took a while to be able to to crack because I was trying to he was playing a very good butterfly open guard and every time and back then I was kind of spamming knee cut passes left and right and he was just keen to it. But eventually I was able to draw him into sitting up. And as he sat up, if you guys seen my setups, I launched in, scored my pass, and um that was the defining moment for me because that that's the score that won. My brother on the other side also had a really tough match. I think I'm not sure if Allan Taylor was the first or last match. It might have been the last, but it was another tough match or I might get be getting the names mixed up. But in any case, he also won with a really nice guard pass also. Uh he had to do a guy was trying to sit up with like a shin and shin guard if I remember correctly and my brother spun out and then knee cut right after the spin out and scored a pass there. So uh we both ended up winning our divisions and then as to my prediction, Pablo Povich won his division and Jeff Bonson won his division. So, I accurately predicted the four winners in advance, like weeks in advance. And I remember um we had a good moment there because we all took a picture together as a you know, even though we weren't in a team, we were still all Fidians, so we all had our trophies together. and probably one of the most cherished memories that I have with my my brother because you know it's hard when you're coming in with two people to win everything in at a very high level, right? It's not easy. And uh that was one of the few times we're able to pull it off on a big stage. And it was just really cool to do that. And uh it was also an upset stop because like I said, nobody was counting us. We were uh considered massive underdogs. My brother was also like the number eight seed and was, you know, given one of the toughest opponents up first. And uh you know we rolled through the competition and uh that kind of set us up for all the other grapples quest because once we won that we kind of got on the radar even though it was disappointing. There was no real um uh world like we qualified for the US team but there was no real like it didn't look like they had anything else set up. maybe it fell through or whatnot, but in any case, the tournament itself was still a fun challenge that I'm glad I was able to do and and do with my brother and have that uh memory together and uh the good times because that set us up later for lots of other Grapples Quests and um yeah, and I in Grappo's Quest, I ended up competing a lot with Henzo Gracie guys. And it's funny cuz at the time like I I don't think I've ever lost to a Henzo Gracie uh guy or team member period. I won against all of them. And I I definitely had some good scraps though. Uh but it it was a it was a good time. I remember one of the things that was funny was on the forums. Uh, I came back after we won and the only thing I posted was just a a gif or a gif, however you want to call it, of a broom just going with a clean suite. But, uh, we got a good amount of cover. I know we got on graphic magazine again for for that performance. So, that that was fun. And I think it on another hand it kind of highlights the difference because I was just uh reading about a grappling tournament that happened yesterday that I just learned about which was a sapiro invitational. They did a $100,000 u 160 man uh tournament 160 lb I'm sorry 160 pound man tournament. I think it was a 16 man. So 16 athletes all 160 pounds. You had Diego P in there. Uh you had Jet Thompson. Uh there was quite a few names. You had the Corby brothers. Um quite a few big names in there. And I don't know if it was just not in my circle, although I would imagine since I'm doing a lot of grappling martial arts stuff that I should have seen this pop up, but I didn't see this pop up until yesterday or I think not yesterday. It would have been um Friday and the tournament was on Saturday. So, I don't know if the promotion wasn't completely up to par, but uh just amazing that that type of opportunity is is there. Mind you, that tournament that we were like competing for, I don't even think there was a price. No, no, I think there was, but it must have been small. Like 500 bucks, you know, like I don't even think it was 500 bucks if I'm being honest. But uh but it just goes to show you like man and that would have been like 20 something years ago. So like the the sport has exploded to a point now where a $100,000 tournament for, you know, just somewhere in Tampa can just pop up and not be on everyone's radar. If they were offering a $10,000 tournament back in 2002, you would have had everyone all over the world who was into grappling flying there to compete. Like it wouldn't be even a question, right? So the fact that you have a $100,000 tournament kind of fly in like under the radar and not be at the top of everybody's head is pretty amazing, right? Uh that just goes to show how much money is being thrown at these athletes now where that isn't as big as a deal as I think it is. And uh yeah, I think it's just amazing. But I also think it kind of changes a little bit the perspective of the people who participate in the sport now. And I've talked about this before, but when you come from the type of background that I did in many of the old school, like if you look at the UFC one fighters, for example, make no mistake, guys who fought in UFC 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, like probably up to like a hundred, none of them had any illusions whatsoever that they would be wealthy or famous from fighting. None. You remember the prize for the early UFC's to win an eight-man or 16-man tournament. I think they changed back and forth was $65,000. Now, this is in 1990s, so that meant a lot more than it did now. But still, you're not going to be rich, right? Like, you're not retiring off winning a UFC. you're not going to buy yourself even a BMW, right? You probably couldn't afford one. So, uh, that wasn't the reason people fought. The they probably could have announced like a $1,000 prize and you would still have the same people show up. The people that fought in the early days was about pride, right? It wasn't about money. it wasn't really about fame or they just they wanted to prove something and this was a a legal venue for them to prove themselves and you have to recall I remember early UFC's before the first UFC rather before any mixed martial arts were occurring in Florida or I mean in the US rather no one really knew which martial arts style was the best right so this was kind of to prove like what I do is the best, you know, is is it taekwondo, judo, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, shoot fighting, like which style is the best style? And those early UFCs were about proving that to a bigger uh like as far as like the background behind it. So, the money wasn't really a big deal. And of course, people were also trying to prove themselves, right? Like I am the best, right? I'm the toughest guy. And some people just wanted the challenge like I just want to go in there and show what I'm made of. So those early fighters were more uh incentivized by their ego than they were by prizes. And I would say that continued into the 2000s as well. Uh yeah, remember I again it's funny because I was showing you know I had uh Oliver come by when he was here for the UFC fight pass and I was showing him early UFC's and stuff like and I I mean he's not that much younger than me but he had never seen any of these things and I forget like there's a generational gap, right? and he thought it was so cool. And uh I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, this is like this is this is where you guys came from, you know, like but it's kind of uh changed quite a bit as far as the mentality, right? Cuz like I I was saying like people in those early days, they didn't expect to become rich or famous or anything like that. They just wanted to fight. They enjoyed fighting. They they had something to prove and they wanted to test themselves. So, we didn't have the best athletes early on and generally the the ones that were great athletes were wrestlers because the wrestlers needed something else to do and they saw there was an opportunity there and that's why when you had like the Kevin Randommans, the Mark Coleman's, you know, the the Mark Kurs, a lot of Marks, right, the Matt Hughes, right? uh these guys were very dominant when they got in because they were superior athletes, but wrestling was just a sport that didn't monetize their athletes. So, they were left with that basically with no channel. And now the UFC, even though it didn't really bring that much money back then, it was still better than anything they could do wrestling. Uh but uh grappling was pretty much very underpaid and early 2000s when my brother and I really started getting into MMA and jiu-jitsu, the UFC was underground. It was essentially uh no longer being broadcast on TV or on pay-per-view and it was like kind of in underground style events for quite a few years. So again, you're not going to be making money if you're you're not being head headlined or publicized. And most people didn't even know what UFC was if you asked them about it. So the type of people that were doing it were a lot more hardcore, right? They they weren't incentivized by fame and fortune. So to me, this makes a better breed of fighter because the motivation is more pure. And by that I mean you're doing the sport for the enjoyment of the sport. You're not doing the sport as a means to achieve some other goal like I I want to be famous or I want to make money, right? Um so I think that motivation in my opinion at least is a stronger one than somebody who's using the sport as an ulterior means to achieve another goal. Right. Uh because if we move now, obviously MMA has become a lot more popular. Everybody knows if you say UFC, everybody pretty much understands or if I say cage fighting, people know exactly what we're talking about now. It's not a mystery. And uh a lot of the UFC fighters are celebrities now, right? And they're famous on their own right. So there is a a viable path to fame and fortune. And compared to other sports, I still believe the barrier to entry is much less as far as if you're a great athlete and you train hard, chances are you're going to end up in a in a big promotion, right? Uh that's not the same in other sports like football and basketball where there's been like decades of athletes getting in and like you you need certain connections and qualifications and skills that you can't just brute force your way in. Like you really need to uh have a good mix of the work ethic, genetics, and everything else. in mixed martial arts. I I don't think that barrier is quite as high yet. I'm sure at some point it will be very saturated and and hard to get in, but I don't think it is now. Although, I will say having the right connections is still a huge part of it, right? You need to know the right people to be able to get into big promotions because there are gatekeepers that keep people back. Uh but in grappling, that's almost non-existent, right? I think anybody who is a really good athlete and trains hard and whatnot can easily jump in and to get into world class competition. So there is a lot of opportunity in and grappling to be able to shoot to the top. Now obviously the pay is not as great but it's respectable now, right? Uh last year we had two grapplers make a million dollars, right? Uh you had Nikki Rod and uh you had one of the the brothers uh Ty Routolo, I'm sorry, Kate Routollo win the the million dollars. So like that's pretty damn good. It's not bad, right? And that's not counting their sponsorship and other things that they're making. So like there there is really good uh paths to making money. And I think one of the unique advantages of grappling compared to other sports is that grappling has a lot of people who invest in grappling as far as for their own training, right? Like the instructional market is something that only really exists in martial arts and particularly in grappling, right? There are there taekwondo instructionals and you know boxing. Yes. but they don't sell nearly as much. And for whatever reason, well, I think the reason is because grappling is the most complicated of all the sports. I don't think that's up for debate. Uh I've made that case many times. I'm not going to go into it again. It's just if you disagree with me, write me a comment or email and I can get into it uh again, but there's just so many motions that it's a lot more complicated. So having a technical gap is a a common issue and instructional can address that especially nowadays how easy it is to to access instructionals. You don't need a VHS player and you know your tube TV and sit down and you know have to rewind or play again. Like digital the digitization the digitization of all this information has made it so easy that we can just watch everything from our phone while we're on the mats and then get to practicing right away. So, this has given the athletes another avenue of revenue, which if you look at someone like Gordon Ryan, he posts his numbers pretty frequently, and he's pulling in a few hundred,000 a month just on instructional courses. So, clearly, he's making more money or at least it appears that he's making more money on instructionals than he would does competing, especially now since he's been competing only like once a year. So there are more paths to not only like uh income but like passive income for these athletes. So there's a lot more incentive to just be uh in it for the money versus in it for the game, right? And I guess what I'm trying to say, I feel like the old school guys were all in it for the game. We were in there to fight. You know, I once was supposed to fight somebody in a rematch, my for my second uh or not my second, but it would have been like my third or fourth shoot fight. Fourth, and it was a rematch against um Efron Ruiz, who was at the first my first shoot fight that he beat me in overtime. and I wanted to get that one back. But when I got to the event, it turned out he got hurt or something. He didn't show up. So, I was like, I was left without a match. But there was also somebody who didn't get a match and they were looking to partner him up, but there was a a big problem. He was like 300 something pounds and I was 190. And I without hesitation, I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, let's let's do it." And they're like, and I remember he even came up to me and the gentleman I'm talking about is Wade Rome. Really nice guy. Uh, and he was like, "Are you sure? Like I gota weigh you by over like 100 pounds or something." Like, man, I've fought guys bigger than you. And I'm not sure if he was 300 lb. He must have been close. Maybe 280, right? Uh, but he was a big boy. And at the time, I remember I was training so much kickboxing and Muay Thai. And I was trying to model my fight style to be like Marco's huah, Marcoas, right? which if you guys know, he's the one that uh famously chopped down uh Paul Varlins in the early UFC. And Paul Varlins was a monster of a guy. And Marco is probably about my frame, a little taller maybe, and just chopped them down until the guy couldn't stand, right? And I went into this fight thinking I'm going to do this uh same strategy. Uh but like again, no pay for this. In fact, I paid to enter this event, right? I think it was like 50 bucks or whatever to be able to compete. So again, very different mentality, right? Uh I went in because I just wanted to fight, right? I didn't I didn't particularly care who it was. I just wanted to fight. And uh and that was a fun match. I ended up losing that one on decision. I I kept trying to kick this guy down, but man, it was a big tree. And uh uh Wade, I believe, was a D1 wrestler, so he wasn't standing around eating too many kicks, right? like he started rushing in for takedowns and uh I was too striking centric, you know, so every time I was trying to kick him, you know, I would score a couple shots, but then I would get taken down and then I would get back up and then get taken down. Uh I didn't have enough circling and I think it was just a more difficult game plan in in this aspect in the street fighting. There was no head shot which really minimizes the danger level of like rushing somebody also. So, like, you know, if I could have like, you know, kicked to the head or punched to the head, it would change things significantly as far as like how easy it is to approach. But I remember I was body punching him a few times and it felt like I was punching the kingpin, you know, hit a a decent sized power guy. So, when I was just punching, I felt my hand just like sink in there. I'm like, "Oh, this is not doing any damage." The only thing I think I was doing damages with was the leg kicks maybe, but that was it. But in any case, that's just to highlight the differences in mentality, right? Like uh I don't think nowadays you would have people up to accept that type of offer. Like, oh yeah, last minute opponent change, you're fighting a 300lb guy and you're not making any money doing it. I don't think anybody's accepting that now, right? And I don't think they should, but I'm just saying it does change the type of person that you that you have. And I think personally the the mindset of somebody who's in the game for the love of the game versus in the game for the love of money or fame is different. And I think it's I think it's better to to love what you're doing. Now, not to say that you can't have a mix of the things. Like if I was competing nowadays, I wouldn't be doing free events either. Let's be honest. Like no, no, like I can get paid. I'm going to go after the money, right? Uh but at the end of the day, the main motivation for it is the game, right? The money is a bonus. If I was truly after making as much money as possible, I would have never got into martial arts because that's a silly sport. I would have got into football or something like that, which my mom begged me many times, even though I don't think I have enough size for that. uh but you know that would have made more sense there there was a bigger avenue towards making a fortune in you know some of the bigger sports especially in that era right so or I could have just been you know a lawyer or a doctor and get you know a pretty guaranteed base income that would be higher then that I would have had as an early martial artist so that definitely wasn't the motivation right But it it definitely helps uh when you're competing. Oh, if I can get paid, that's going to make it easier for me to be able to train better or get access to better resources. So, uh I'm not saying to ignore like you have to ignore the incentive of money. Like, no, it it's there for a reason and it's going to help you uh get access to better resources, but it shouldn't be why you're doing it in my opinion. Anyhow, that's all I have for you guys for today. Uh, and I'll see you all next week.