BTG 20 - MMA History, Leadership, Honesty

[Music] hey what's going on David a Vaughn here with Robert Drysdale with another episode of breaking the guard this one's episode number 20 oh yeah lots of fun ah so Dave what's new man give me give me some updates oh god getting settled in it's still okay to fight about furniture choices you never win that fight with one why would why would you could bothered it that's right there what do you think about this I don't like it yeah my favorite favorite like women do this I don't like which one you want the red or the blue and you say blue much it goes no but the red isn't the red is better isn't it I'm like yeah right is better you know what they're really saying like you got a good way to choose but they want you to choose the one that they like I don't shoot there too is the wrong one doesn't work things are coming along so yeah it's going pretty well how about you good busy man I like running like crazy but you know like good stuff now I got a lot of new projects I was starting in an 18 nice yeah we're building something like everything in-house you know everything from management to striking strengths gonna show the whole deal like everything under one roof and what I want to do with that is kind of like stop though I mean if you're familiar with Vegas like a dynamic here's a very strange one yeah whiners bounced around like crazy like they have a different coach every week there they train it to three different gyms sometimes you get two guys are fighting each other train on the same mat that's so strange to me you know I don't know like you know the Brazilian just has a reputation for being like oh York Realty if you bounce around but then like Vegas like swung all the way the other way and I think it's even worse yeah they just created this like it's this poisonous environment where coaches are fighting over who's gonna corner who it's just weird man so I'm trying to create the opposite of that yeah that's the thing I noticed when I came here because I saw like the well you said most places are very political in the sense that you're not allowed to train here and there and here is that everybody's everywhere I would go when I was trying to find my footing gotta go to one gem and then I see the same people that next gem and then the other one I'm like matter it's very weird anyway like you're saying there's a lot of like fight conflicts yeah like at least for me I'm not comfortable with that as a coach no because I could then I'm training somebody that's gonna end up fighting one of my guys later on it's a conflict of it all this literally happened I won't mention on what fight but recent fight this guy's like a week of the fight last sparring session blows his knee right 20 minutes later who his opponent who lives in town gets a phone call so I'm so blew his knee all right the guys in his gym were tipping him off to his opponent right like I don't know man like at some point you gotta have like some some some ethics you know you just gotta go even if you're like all about the money you know whatever or this guy's my friend but it's still like you're not on the mat with this guy you have the respect they have to honor that to some extent you know yeah this guy is like open he's like exposing himself in front of he's making himself vulnerable and you're gonna use that against him right to tip off if tip him off to one of you your friend who happens to be fighting right so my vision is to close it down a little bit more and honest I don't want cross training man I don't want that one or lock it down I want to go here training partner are you missing a training partner you'd lacking training partners no the coach good coach is good and and I just want to kind of like you know I want to run it like the collegiate practice I don't know what's gonna work but you know in college or an Olympic sports generally speaking the wife if the wife likes the coach you know how much that means to the coach yeah zero I don't care your girlfriend doesn't like I doesn't matter doesn't mean anything to me but in him in May if the wife doesn't like you you're screwed you're oh you're done it doesn't matter how good of a coach you are if the wife doesn't like if the kids don't like you if the mother-in-law doesn't like you you're screwed right you're out so because it's a strange dynamic where the coach is not really the boss the coach is an employee to the family right not just a family to like sometimes like didn't I think just that the fighter so like he's the boss or the fighter tells the coach what he wants and how he wants to work out I want to flip that on its head I don't go this is what you're doing it may be difficult because of the culture of anime is a very individualistic culture these guys kind of like yeah they tell this is what I I'm gonna do for this camp I just don't I don't even want to corner people like that if I'm gonna do this I want to do it 'we were like me and the other coaches we sit down we lay out a game plan and the fighters gonna fall and if they don't like it they can leave anytime they want yeah you know let's see what how it goes but like I wanna I want to lock it down and I think that would be I think of the coaches are more likely to be invested that way and I think you've created a family or of a small will a tight little bee hive versus this I'm gonna bounce around do whatever the hell I want kind of thing which I actually ends up harming the fighters I would think so you know I've never been one to when I bounced around that way especially if I'm trying to train to get better for myself you know because you're getting lots of mixed messages you know and unless you feel you have pumped your coach for everything they're worth and you've extracted everything from them you have no reason to be bouncing around I agree and I can tell you right now nobody's pumped I'll take information but coach do you know you're like it's never happened you know like if you're going with a coaches actually knows what he's doing you know you know for example of course he you're super expert like nobody's tapped you out for knowledge yeah so it doesn't make sense to bounce around you know and I look at guys and be like oh I need this cutting-edge thing or this and like no you don't you know it's like do you go to college and take 20 majors at once yeah doesn't work you even touch a semi spread thin so well there might be good stuff over here there's a lot of good stuff over here that you need to trust that your coach is gonna give you the path you need and every so often you're gonna bring in people like you might fly in a sparring partner or whatnot to give this guy an you look to give him a new direction maybe some new technique or we've done that in my gym we would fly people over for a week and they essentially run all the classes a week and they're just teaching everything and then they get like a very quick exposure to some stuff that we weren't teaching okay now we add that to the correct yes now we've absorbed that you know now we're gonna start running that through but I I don't agree like I feel like oh you gotta move it's not time to switch camps and you gotta go here now cuz you're in this stage of your career not like man what are the best fighters of all time was like Federer Melanie ago and he was training with people like nobody knows the name of the coach right only Bureau super hardcore offense you know who is it hey nerd they're really good for himself okay of course and people now they go well he got knocked out but you saw him like we have to Emperor man he was the man in the heavyweight division no one wanted to fight him yeah yeah he was unbeatable for a minute there correct yeah and he had a very good stretch of time I think his problem was they put him on the shelf for too long trying to create that m1 UFC deal that never was gonna happen and then he doesn't give you're sitting in the sidelines for four or five years yeah and then a game like this which is moving really fast man you're outdated yeah and he's not young anymore yeah he's had some Wars in his life but you know I can hold a cross-training thing I have a theory of why that is and I think that the the justification for cross-training is oh I need new training partners and you'd be exposed to new challenges new techniques I don't think that's the reason I think it's more about socializing I think it's more about networking it's more about creating alliances it's more about like going over there and making friends how if he calls it make a friend you know and there's a lot of making a friend in digits I notice that we do open mats on weekends sometimes and people don't want to train they'll get a round or two in what do you really want to do hang out I think a lot of ass to do with hanging out they just want to hang out and like see their friends and they want to measure themselves against those guys where do I sit in that hierarchy I understand where I sit in the hierarchy of my gym I know who's who over there I wonder wonder where I sit sit is a challenge in a sense where it's almost like competition right there's that that vibe too because you never train with this guy you known him yeah well you've never trained with them but can I beat this guy is he gonna beat me but I think a lot of it has to do with building alliances to new people are like that we like to make friends and you know and you never know keep that door open just in case tomorrow you never know I think there's a lot more of that going on that people realize my whole take on it are you getting beaten gym yes then then you haven't done that gym it's that simple like if you're walking in the gym and you're making everyone tapleft right it said or no one's challenging you then I think that if you have to leave and when I say beaten not just like oh I'd be everyone by one advantage today like I'm tapping you I get remade it like you're not even close to being a challenge I completely get that other than that the way I see it you haven't exhausted your you know what that gym has to offer you yeah I don't even further than that like even if you're just trying everybody if their coach is putting you on the right path like you might have someone like let's say GSP I would expect him to be able to smash just about everybody that he's facing he's one of the best fighters of all time arguably but he hasn't lost you know like I imagine fader was probably the best guy in his room but when he was on a roll he was smashing everybody there's a intimate relationship between the coach and the athlete and once they get to know each other that they have a synergy where the coach kind of knows oh this is what he needs right now even if he's not vocalizing it I can tell you know you can read body language you can read it like what they're saying and the the subtext behind it and that's takes time to develop you know because you have to really get to another fighter that's why I like one time I had to coach somebody from another team I was running Alliance MMA out of San Diego actually that's an interesting good they were actually gonna put him against one of my other fighters from Miami yeah and then I told him hey look I can't coach they saw a conflict of interest you know make us I'm not gonna tell you how to beat him or vice versa and you don't want me just to fly there watch you yeah and then they ended up shuffling the card so he didn't have to fight but still like I didn't really know the guy that well so it's like how do I like how does he like to warm up how does he what things does he need to hear before the fight to get psyched so I had like interviewing okay what do you want but it's not the same versus having a coach that's been with you like 10 15 years you know everything that you need and absolutely and especially when you go into combat you need that sense of confidence in your corner you need to have faith in that guy because once you're in there you got the blinders on he's the guy that's gonna be calling the shots and he beats calling for cues that you don't identify with they're just gonna go right over your head and you just touch on something that is very overlooked about like the synergy is huge and it's the trust yes I think that the person is in a corner it to me more important than having like being outstanding technician which you can see you can be an outstanding be an outstanding technician as far the coach goes yeah and not be trusted yes I give you surprised at how much social intelligence plays a role in these camps like how much coach has to be that wise warrior you have to be that that experienced guy that every time you say something people listen you said I'm saying yeah and it like you gained that reputation you gain that trust every every time you step foot in the gym every time you're speaking to people every time you're interacting whether people realize it or not they're observing their body language the tone of your voice or social intelligence and you're being judged the entire time people are constantly judging you just don't always realize but you're constantly under the scrutiny of like them analyzing you know how wise are you and I know this let's just like I've seen some of these coaches talk about this and you know you need to work on your footwork and they look you in the eye when they say it right and the fighters get hypnotized and I'm like that I could have you know I it that's obvious to me right but like the way they say it it sounds like they're so wise and that comes across as like oh I really trust this guy because he's sounds like it's putting a lot of thought into what they're saying right and it's a public speaking skill like you have to be very it's you know keep or more likely you believe in you if your body languages you know it's you know it is expressing confidence if it's expressing you know I know what I'm talking about I'm giving this a lot of thought or if you if you like you you know you shouldn't when you Bobby no one's gonna believe you I have this guy clearly doesn't is nothing to do with wisdom if I go and get going on a debate and stuttering you're done yeah you could be really right but might be right but no one's gonna think you want to debate because you were stuttering the whole time where this other guy was eloquent might be full of it completely wrong but he speaks with confidence when he delivers his message and a coach has to be that guy the entire time 24 hours a day like there's not a be wondering when they're eating I just coaching when they're eating when they're out for like for a dinner you have to be that guy the whole time because he's being judged the whole time yeah and I think there's another element to that as well which is the fact that all the fighters are always buying for like this alpha male status right and as the coach you are supposed to be the Alpha yeah the guy that knows everything you're handing down the knowledge so that they go one day be in your spot you know that's happening in there whether they may acknowledge it or not you know as because you're the leader as a coach so you know in animals leaders are always being challenged yeah the Alpha is always being challenged and he always has to reassert himself when the situation calls for it so likewise as a coach we're in the same thing whether we like it or not you know and I could be role with one guy and he beats the crap out of you in front of everybody everybody'd be like cool this is the new leader yeah new leader or the cook done you know like he's no longer good anymore crazy but it really is animal behavior it's like a Yerger illa and a pack of gorillas and you know if this guy's out doing you with his social intelligence he's like challenging you know leadership such as physical yeah it has to do with social intelligence it has to do with how you dance and it's you know any every coach knows we've not worded the way we're wording it but like they know what we're talking about because it's constantly happening if you're a manager I manage the same thing other manners will constantly try to get in there and go like eh I'm more than the guy you got I got you man you know and it really what's going on is like you're trying to establish a hierarchy like I am superior to the guy next you know the next to me or whatever yeah and it's very it's very strict but I get gyms are very such a primal environment that's what's been so fascinating to observe it's like it's you you really feel like you know you're in this this bunch of cavemen and and it's you know people are constantly challenging each other there's a hierarchy you can order and you have to respect a pecking order and there's always that guy that if he moves up the pecking order too quickly he is as far as causing problems people don't like him all of a sudden because he's moving up too quickly you know or maybe he poses a challenge to the alpha male he poses a challenge to that the guy was a beta male the second guy in charge you know and gym owners have had this profit is problem the fourth was if I leave that I don't have this problem anymore because I finally solved it right I have a chain of command in there now but I didn't believe in these things ten years ago and like this is stupid I don't believe in that so I take off for like two or three weeks for seminars right and there is this one guy who believes he should be in charge because he's known you this other guy he should be charged because he's been a world champion well this other guy really should be in charge because he's the one who teaches in those classes well but I'm the oldest oh but I've been too long everyone's got a reason why they believe there's a second-in-command right so you found there like it's not a problem with the second you leave all of a sudden people start like Oh who's the one and it should be me so as when you learn quickly you know through experience that if you're not present you have to have a very very clear chain of Airi similar military but you command if the generals out we know who's in charge there's no like question who's gonna be in charge in case the generals not around right exactly there's a reason why they've come up with these things it works yeah and you got a really you know I have to admire military because they they have a system exactly because it works and them winning is crucial for the survival of the entire civilization yes so you can't just you can't just go oh this is just like a game and if we lose it's ok like no it's important that we develop a system a chain of command that is highly highly efficient under pressure right or in one in this case war so it whatever they came up with is probably the best that we have to offer you ever hear about army ants yes like they form battalions have you've seen that like there's videos of this stuff like they for if there's like medieval warfare it's incredible it's like nature's way of like what is the best way of organizing ourselves to go against other insects and they form like they come up conclusions that are very similar to our conclusions like this is probably the best format there is for fighting you know in larger numbers I think it's faster I wasn't sure about the battalions but I know they have it's like one of those babies they have here are keys or what yeah but they also have certain answers service waypoints that they're like they create tunnels or whatnot yeah other answer doing there everything has a different job yeah so it's very interesting and yeah I don't want to get in the way of our no no it's like it's like nature's way of like we have found the most sophisticated means of combat right and I think our military is an expression of that like what what are the most of the most efficient way about performing a highly efficient enemy there I and there's an it's been a selection process been going on for centuries so yes if they have chain-of-command which you know brings in questions a lot of you know the more idealistic approach to you know government in general you know I've always been I was defined myself was a radical of democracy and as I get older it's like I sort of question a lot of these things I'm like yeah hierarchies are not a bad idea after all like I think that they may play a bigger role in society then I would like to admit and like you know military's proof of that because I think if you get a bunch of generals in a tent to decide what we're gonna do tomorrow morning and they all have to vote be a mess yeah you know I think it would be a horrible idea a lot of bureaucracy and a lot of bureaucracy is very slow so the decision-making when it's in Democrat Democratic forum is is very slow yeah because I have to voice my opinions I have to take in I have to match the screaming and the yelling it turns it to very quickly in terms like a yelling match whereas if you have a chain of command it's very it's quick but the downside of that Dave when you give it some thought is that if the leader is wrong yeah everything everyone suffers like if a bunch of people grip together they're less likely to be wrong even though the decision make is very slow there's a reason why corporations have a board of directors yeah because they've learned that if there's only one boss and he's making other decisions when he is wrong about an important decision the whole company suffers a board of directors is less likely to be wrong yeah even though it's a small group still but still better than one right correct yeah there's no checks and balances right that's the whole idea you don't want to give one person all absolute power because now you're saying you're at the mercy of this person and then as you know someone with all that power with time can get corrupted more likely than that you know so a whole term labor so there's a reason why everything has become the way it is but you do have the question like now or have you gone too far where there's so much red tape to get anything done where you can pretty much not get anything done yeah so everything's starting to stagnate and the changes can happen quickly enough to respond to real-world situations so yeah I think in my opinion there's too much bureaucracy right now it has to be pulled back a bit yeah there has to be a little bit more faith in the leader but like you said it's risky I think it's up a few if you observe like politics it has been throughout you know modern - pendulum between authoritarianism and democracy and it goes back and forth because people are fed up with bureaucracy and slow decision-making and they swing towards a charismatic leader and then every now and then you end up with like you know individual wife doesn't got a lot of good for society and every now and then you end up with a Hitler it's so it's a risky game you're playing it so it's it's so tempting to put all the power in the hand of one person right I was watching uh Lord of the Rings yesterday with my daughters and uh and I was trying to like convince him that everything Harry Potter got they took from Lord of the Rings and they didn't believe in like you're gonna watch lore of the Rings I'm gonna prove you wrong Harry Potter got everything from Lord of the Rings right it's just like a total copycat and you know is really because Tolkien was an anarchist the ring represents political power yeah right so the Linda ring has to be destroyed because even the most benevolent of creatures a hobbit the most peaceful of creatures is corrupted by power yeah right so the ring needs to be destroyed the ring represents political power right and yeah like I just I just constant myself thinking about these things because I'm a gym owner so it's in a much smaller scale it's like where do I draw that line between being the author oath Aryan leader and like listing other people because when you're bottom here in charge this is the advice for gym owners you can effort in two different ways you cannot listen at all which is horrible or you can listen too much and that's just as bad yeah because if you take everyone's advice you're trying make everyone happy and we all know what happens when you try to please everyone right it's a recipe for disaster how I learned it's the hardest way I wouldn't make everyone out like me I want everyone to like me poor boy do you some people aren't gonna like you that's okay move on yeah you know that's a thing that you can't please everybody and even like when it comes to with our elections or whatnot you might get the leader that you wanted the Republican or you wanted the Democrat you got the other one by the day you put up with it yeah and you're like well you hope that whatever they did that well maybe I was wrong let's put our power behind this guy cuz I'm in this country's I wanted to win you know it's kind of like it's true yeah it's true because you know and I finally like I I didn't vote for by wooden but I find myself like I want him to do a good job like I tried it sometimes it's a part of me he'll say [ __ ] and let that do like that's outlandish please don't open I didn't open his mouth he pisses me off but like not from a practical standpoint the truth of the matter is if you live here and he's your president and he is your president if you live here yeah why would you not support him you want him to do well yeah the same thing on the other end like why would you root against Obama if you're a Republican he's no sense like you want the guy to do well you him doing well I mean benefits everyone all right I get fees the horrible president who do you think is gonna you know weep so I I think at some point the partisanship is just counterproductive for the country as a whole for sure you know it's like I think I heard this from Brian Tracy he has this old joke where two Swedes are in a boat and they're rowing yeah and the boat starts to sink he goes oh no we're gonna drown as well it's not my boat yeah you know we're in this country we're at the boat you know so we want everybody whoever's elected but please do well tell it they put me wrong you know I'm you know I have my ideas but the thing is what people get so passionate about take Danity politics thing and then they they they it's like the economy's failing and they're cheering yes I told you see I was right he's a little present like that's not good you know like you're you're in this boat now it doesn't matter we just got a you know you got a role together I guess Tom it's funny little little caveat about the DA this podcast guys me and they've originally sat down to talk about the history of jujitsu Trump no Brock Obama we won't get to the history of jujitsu Michaels with like like and it's and this is why I love this is even if we had one listener day or a million it's like I enjoy this because it's so organic we and me and Dave like literally sit down like right before we're about to go live right before they was about to press record and he goes what we gonna talk about like oh and well something will come up right and I had found I was going through some of my files because the documentary team that were working on they were asking for the article where George Gracie fought equals for the Dutch right and that fight was to Duke place in 1933 and it is and I found that article that's like post on my Instagram the other day and that's why you let's talk about this right so that fight is arguably the first MMA fight or volley volley to to fight in modern history 333 1933 because if you take in consideration nailed Greek pankration yeah that's pretty much in the may even more hardcore you know to the death in some cases gladiators fought too so you know it's not fair to say it's the first and they may fight in history right but in modern history because these cross fights is some other thing we talked about briefly this whole wrestling versus jujitsu this is this goes back to the 1800s you know Japanese come into the United States to fight American wrestlers and vice versa a really good book on it craze by whole better to pay the day the same guy who wrote shocky they're on Amazon's own craze Volume one and two and they talked about this this exchange between you know how wrestling influence judo judo influenced wrestling catch wrestling influencing Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Brazilian Jiu Jitsu influencing catch wrestling right or Bruce Lee and judo the more appropriate term and you know and then I found to find this article 1933 George Gracie who was the first hero of the Gracie family this is the you know at a time where Helia was just getting started right just get his feet wet Carlos was never much of the fighter you know he fought once profession dead that we have recorded he controversial match but officially he lost and then he got overturned so some people said he wants some people say he lost we can get it at some other time but George was the first hero of the family because he was a guy was constantly fighting and he agreed to a fight with Chico slowly dodge because the way MMA was geared there and they called it valine do to do like anything goes right is they would get together up day before the fight and go what are the rules you do cop where I did you know what are we gonna do oh okay you can kick about it you have to wear Aggie no I don't want to wear a go then you can't kick so they were like the Commission was just like them the coach is getting together and go and this is how this they would fix the rules the day before the fight right and George was an interesting guy to me because he was the kind of guy that go okay I'll go what about this okay about elbows okay what about he's heavier okay what about he's not gonna wear a key ok he's like I'll fight anywhere anyone anytime anywhere he really had that sort of personality which is why he lost a lot but Chickasaw Dodger was not only a lot heavier but they agreed to a rule set that was basically I mean it was more trained in UFC yeah elbows head butts I think I galge I can't remember the exact rules but like there was like nobody no I gouging but it was pretty much the kind of MMA you were watching out of you know Sierra's ill even probably EVF see one like the IVC remember that yeah IVC had a little net around the ring if you don't know we're talking about your new to animate Chuck Liddell was fighting like he would fly down to Brazil fight late Josette Pele and like the the ring had like a net around it and if you got your head stuck in that now screwed you could there's no way her getting her head out of and I've seen some where they would even choke you with the ring rope so there was a famous fighter but he actually got the rope wrapped it around and choke the guy and the reps like yeah but yeah men so anyway so they fought and then George won chuckles legend gave up I can't remem the exact reason but I think he was he of ozone it was a tap where it was like a the corner thrown in the towel I can't remember how he did it was he a Lucha Libre I know his background the thing is like anyone who was fighting would just claim a style they weren't necessarily skilled at that style I was just like I'm this guy I'm that guy and all of a sudden you're like you're rooting for that style because because that's their style yeah but I I mean technically was very very you know it was no it's not very sophisticated these guys were laying the the the paving the way for us right so it's so easy for a modern and it may fighter to go those guys suck yeah because the best techniques have been selected for you don't give yourself credit buddy someone else did that for you you know but it's it's a piece of history that I think that it's almost like forgotten it's so interesting to me because that fight right there is pretty much what got the ball rolling right like there's cross style fighting had existed like capoeira's were fighting judokas and there was a lot of that great core romans and prince boxers that was that was happening but it was the first time where they have I mean arguably the first time when they got together and going everything oh you do whatever the hell you want I'll do whatever I want let's fight right and that right there is what you know got the ball rolling today we have UFC Bellator one championship and my suspicion is that most fans for sure don't but even the promoters and the people our industry they don't realize that this history that gives them a job has as you know it's a long history of almost a hundred years old now yeah all right so you know part of the reasons we're doing this documentary is trying to like revive that story and give these guys some credit I think it's a great thing it's I have all my fighters like okay watch UFC one and when they watch it they're like whoa what these guys saw the methyl buddies suck but they they watch and like you could grab the hair yeah and the balls and do all this yeah yeah and there's no time limit it was just going to it sounds insane now I'm totally nuts right but that's how it was back then you know like am i watching UFC one and was it the I think it was a swiss or dutch kickboxer that there was a savate a French is about the guy that kicked the sumo wrestler and his tooth you consider to fly and I remember that I'd say one of the teeth got lodged in his foot believe it or not and he got a massive infection later on really yeah yeah that's another side story to it but I yeah I remember like holy crap crazy yeah but it is very very different I that was one of my first introduction to Mme before that I wasn't doing anything and shortly after that I started doing G kundo and there's like Bruce Lee which was I had an inmate's tune to it or like it really did I think Bruce Lee I think he's deified as this like D Mike demigod or you can just beat anyone is like but I do he was an actor at the other day but I do give him credit for one thing he was ahead of his time because here's a one move I think it's endured a dragon he's got him and make loves on yeah yeah let me they look like an egg laughs thank you they're using the Kempo gloves which are like the big but it means you can grab that did sell day it gives you an idea and I remember one of his movies he's doing arm bars and stuff like that graphic so he had understanding that a fight goes well beyond just strikes which to me at the time at least was very advanced yes for sure and he was already coming up with the idea that you know G conducive style with that style right you know like you do anything that works that concept is MMA right because a lot of the even when MMA started for America which is a UFC it wasn't MMA yet in fact the term didn't exist memory was called nhb no holds barred by the two door equivalent in English you know and uh but it was all about proving which style was better and that was the whole point behind the Gracie's pushing it yeah you know but even like for the first like 30 or 40 UFC is people were still rooting for a wrestler I remember like when I first started when I was doing Jiuquan don't like oh I want that you could though guy that way in but like he never watch and then I got into wrestling oh I want the rest of that dan7 Marco gonna win you know but uh everybody had we're still rooting for styles and it's only like midway through people start like you know what to be the best we got to do everything no because if if you don't watch this early you have sees you don't see the progression of combat right because I think it's very important to watch it start from UFC one and move all the way up and yeah at least the first 20 or so because you just see grappling dominates early in and then there's a shift and then wrestling starts to win yes and then striking wins yeah I think grappling comes back and then there's a back and forth struggle and I think for one it shows that grappling is the most dominant form by itself correct because it's if you don't know how to clinch and you don't know how to grow on the ground your ignorance is just really that's not one everything being equal one on one we're fighting in the streets if you got to choose it be grappling right I think most few people I think most strike was probably at that but other situations when it comes to self-defense at least and I've gotten so much [ __ ] about saying this before yeah is that for example I'm in a club and my boys are [ __ ] getting beat up over there and there's like 15 of those and like seven of us Brazilians it was the worst style because there's like five of them and like three of us why would you want to grapple boxing is the best style yeah you want hit-and-run hit-and-run hit-and-run you don't want to be hanging out man yeah like you don't want to be would you why would you put a rear naked choke on someone when you got a fight three of his other of his friends yeah you're the hole it's a horrible idea you're gonna be on the ground on your back with the guy on top of you so even when you took them out you have to move them off of you yeah and then meanwhile you're getting sucker kicked and meanwhile the other guys waking up yeah you get choked unconscious you're not out for 30 minutes out you're out like five second and then you're back up one thing i watch eyes annoys me so much we'll watch a movie with my girlfriend and she's a doctor so when she sees medical errors like I hate this yeah you see like fighting errors look like you see someone chokes him out oh he's gonna be gone for 30 minutes and he actually says that he walked I'm like unless you kill them or give him a stroke he's gonna be back that's what I can't watch fighting movies everyone wants me to watch John wick and I haven't thought I can't do it man like its to pay even if the plot is amazing just because I know there's gonna be a fight scene that I'm like I'm not gonna watch it it's just it's kind of painful to me because like whenever they do something realistic and some of the movies you can see them having a little more grappling I just saw episode 3 or 4 of the mandalorian it's on Disney oh it's like Star Wars like yeah I've seen the baby Yoda going around the baby is awesome and I Gina Carano is in there and she's fighting the guy he looks like Boba Fett he's not Boba Fett but it's a Mandalorian right so he's got the same uniform or arm or whatever and you know they're grappling and you can see like Gina Carano there's like a 20 Nagi on you know the Mandalorian and it's pretty cool to see real fighting being incorporated into Hollywood yeah that's awesome but it's not enough so for me to see like some you know I don't know some of that BS I'm not gonna mention martial arts and names but everyone knows what I'm talking about yeah yeah you know I'm just like watching that it's just like no you know I can't do it man I can't do it I guess it's like you're a girl like seeing meadow because your girl's a psychiatrist right yeah which we got to bring her on or one of these days we keep talking about it yeah yeah but she did two years of the orthopedic resident so she's done surgeries and all that stuff her dad's orthopedic surgeon so she'll see things and they're like that will never happen I can't watch this anymore it is painful during the industry and you know the game is very painful to watch some of this stuff yeah she always gets surprised when she sees things that like a very detailed and nuanced and they get it right so god it had it consulted somebody because you really into a steel any field I think that you know you can spot someone who knows what they're talking about very quickly well I have like a radar for this I swear to God gave oh yeah I'm I'm never wrong like I can talk to these go up and grab them for so many years you know five minutes yeah I can tell because they'll say stuff that someone who's been training for a long time would never say yeah you know they'll believe stuff that someone's been trained for a long time would never believe only like someone was like a beginner or maybe intermediate level the equivalent of like a blue or purple but would believe you know anyone's been try for more than ten years would never say something like that you know it's funny but I can I can spot them like me very quickly yeah I've had a guy once come up to me tell me come to my gym he said I was a Olympic wrestling alternate and to be an Olympic level wrestler even an alternate you're phenomenal incredible absolutely if you're gonna grab wrestle with me high school wrestler that never even made stage should toy with you yeah you should wipe the mess with me and I was throwing him around like a rag doll I'm like just like you said like the aura is not there either I guess there's a lot there's a level of confidence that you would have whether it be shown as like cocky or just like really assured you know people displayed differently yeah yeah there's a display right I want to talk about that so and did you're right this is because people do display it differently guy can be goofy yeah he can be a goofball like he can be like for example you hang out a Forrest Griffin he's like he's he's a walking goofball man like a guy who's constantly hilarious you can't but at the same time he gives you a vibe that [ __ ] I'm tough as it gets yeah like you cannot break me with ten punches you can punch me in the face 20 times and you wouldn't break me you know he does give them even if you know who he was he does give you that vibe while being very goofy at the same time right and then you get the guy who's like just a quiet guy like you know Marcelo that kind of quiet guy yes like doesn't you can't get to guys smile and everyone like [ __ ] that guy's kind of scary I never smile he gives that vibe to people I think before constantly telling me this scares people you know but you know but just because the guys quiet doesn't mean he's Giggs ales that that confidence is very hard to describe yeah I think women pick that up on men when guys are trying to act confident in front of women women pick it up so quickly so maybe we should have to get a woman to explain because they can pick up a confident guy so quickly and I wonder if has to do with body language every one of your voice I was actually talking to my girlfriend about that I think we hadn't mentioned it on the previous podcast and she was saying that you have women read body language much better didn't and didn't do I believe that and I think we were talking about the reasoning why evolution wise or what now but ultimately yeah they do read by language better so they can look and that's why women usually good spot liars and better because you have body cues that you do whether you're like looking the wrong way or your shoulders are shrugged or you can't make eye contact because there's a shame you know so they can spot that out better I think but yeah it's someone who's posing is usually it's yeah the thing if you're really good at something you don't have to ever brag about it I feel that way you know it's almost like you don't have to flex yeah no but uh yeah it's funny like you went in fighting like I get I get that because I'm I feel that when I'm talking to a guy I could know this guy right knows he's talking about this guy's a badass and he doesn't have to look the part and doesn't have to talk and say just be just gonna tell I just know this guy knows what he's talking about and I know it very quickly but other fields I mean I don't know [ __ ] about cars mechanics fool me very quickly to wait oh it's $800 okay okay you know I believe you like yeah I got a quote do some work in the house the other day and like okay okay now I've learned finally like get at least three quotes for everything everything but when you don't know about construction mechanics or whatever like you don't have no idea yeah I tell people I get multiple quotes but you said three or four like you're not wasting your time you're saving potentially depending how big the project is tens of thousand dollars I had a right to do a remodel and the first guy shot me out forty-eight thousand and then I'm like that's I think that's how I think no and then like later on it came out to twenty eight thousand yeah yeah if I about I just took the guy's face value I just lost twenty almost double my future so like you never know what people everybody has a different game and like a lot of times here in the Western world you don't negotiate as much because you're used to retail stores and you just walk in oh this is a price true you take it and you go right but like in other cultures like the agent particularly there's a lot of bargaining going on there there's no prices solid yeah even here you can bargain but people don't realize you got I've gone once to get a pair of shoes over 80 bucks and this says Rito IT bugs am I gonna get it for 60 and then I go let me talk to manager well when you get it you know like the worst thing that happens is they go no okay then I take it or leave it you know those guys can just sales people and they're really good they can read read you - I was very bad a couple years ago I was in Turkey or a seminar camp yeah and I went to this Bazaar in Istanbul three famous cuz it's like saying I don't know all this it's really old man but it's got some really cool stuff get some China stuff there too but he got some really fake antiques probably some real antiques - oh but so I walked into this store and there's this world map but everything is written in Arabic and it looks like it's five hundred years old now I know that this was this is like five days old right it's not five hundred years but it looks like it is that's really cool plus there's Sun for like I don't know it was like $30 or something $40 so it can't be but they make it look original and they tell you it's original you know and you go with it because you're in Turkey and your wrist and boo and it's a really cool map actually got it in my little library and I'm gonna bargain with this guy because I know I'm supposed to bargain like they're expecting you to do that right and I'm just like playing hardball now I wanted to pay I can I'm the price but like I want to pay thirty four is like no it's 40 and we kept going back and forth I'm like I'm gonna walk out this guy's gonna call any minute now so you know I'm goodbye and I walk out with this guy's gonna come get me he's gonna come get me where is he I'm walking out of the store I look behind me he's like back in there like talking other people I'm like it didn't work so I'm like I start hanging out from that store for the next like 10 minutes if he comes after me he does it this guy knows what he's doing I knew that I wanted that map I'm convinced he knew I was gonna come back yeah sure enough you know I walk back in there I go I didn't even borrow this time okay 40 bucks right and I bought it but I think deep down he knew that I the way I looked at it the way hell did the way I was talking about this guy's not leaving without this I got the experience man they deal with this all day they're black bolted selling you fake antiques yeah well I mean vendor is like that right so you have to be able to walk away from it right like that well you know what they call it walk away clothes you just walk away and then you're hoping that they're gonna go I was convince you that I like touch me the shoulder like it's gonna happen like you keep ten seconds he's gonna come after me nothing III do a few tactics for negotiating if I like normally I'm not really hard balling but first you ask for whatever price it is and then you go what's the best that you can do that's an easy one because people can always do a little better so they'll give you something and if you want to squeeze a little more out of it then it's simple things just walk away close it was like anybody could do that you don't need to be like charismatic or I have confidence or anything so like if you're like I just did it for I had to replace something in my ec to get a fixed AC motor and they shot me a price I was like 380 I'm like what's the best price you can do like let me talk to my manager come back and then they're like uh 325 okay easy I mean I was doing this over the phone I can't walk away I guess I got hang up you lose the fact that you can't be can't really call you back you know if you're in the store you can just do that and it's a very simple thing to do but anybody can do it sake requires a lot of sensitivity from parties the better you are at this game I'm not good I'm the kind of guy tend like guys so to [ __ ] such a nice guy I like him so much he wouldn't screw me over you know I'm that guy I think Frank whatever he was talking about like he's that way too that's what he brings his wife yes yeah a lot of sense man because you know the wife is gonna battle for every penny that's her money too yeah so she's gonna battle for every dime where am i dumb ass I just go okay whatever you think is best yeah I don't I don't yeah I'm not I'm not gonna get better at overtime I guess but it is a skill no doubt for sure you know you just gotta flex it every so often you practice it I gotta where I started doing that I think I read I think thing goes Donald Trump jr. he wasn't uh yeah I figured which book it was but he wrote like a I guess you know like that pen Nick said whatnot he had a lo aftermath and he talked about a story where they were giving getting chores when they were kids him and his brother and I guess Donald Trump senior oh you got a mold along and he was getting paid like ten bucks and then he found out that the brother was getting paid 20 he goes how come he see 20 he says well he asked and that's true what's it go like that saying goes the squeaky wheel gets the oil yeah yeah that true and I'm not the squeaky wheel end up like letting things fly and then I'm the guy getting paid 10 bucks and like what the hell you know but you know it is you have to it's it's a fight man you got a battle for every inch you know you you wouldn't let someone get an unreal continued soon like oh you know what exactly you're fighting for every little inch you know you got to do that in every aspect of the day man I think about this a lot you know you want to live in this world where we're not competing with each other we are yeah everyone was competing against everyone you know it doesn't mean you have to be dishonest doesn't mean you have to be a piece of [ __ ] but it's the end of the day you're in competition and competition is ruthless and the competition is good for you because it strengthen it strengthens you cry but you have a value that is a beauty strength as a value people see compassion as a value ride to see ethics and honesty as about our values yes but so is strength yeah you know I think strength that we're in an era where being strong is almost like all you're not to put I talk about physical strength not smell yeah social social actual emotional all of it like it is equality but it's almost like we've been taught that that's bad it's almost like we swung so hard the other way where you're not supposed to be strong you know yeah you know like if you look at any like Disney movie who is a villain he said rich mogul yeah right and it's like okay yes there are rich people you can say unethical whatnot but is every rich person an evil person like no you know it's a huge stereotype but it's kept going from like the old days where the church would say oh it's easier for the poor person to go through heaven then I'm butchering that you're probably doing better than me but the walk ahead of a needle yeah this ronald walks through a header than evil than a poor rich man getting to heaven exactly and i think to me it's kind of pandering to poor people because there's more of them you know that's like okay we're gonna give you a silver lining you know but uh Nietzsche would argue and I always like Nietzsche wandering philosopher that I've always enjoyed because he he saw love this right early in the 1800s and he swung the other ways like this is what's gonna happen if you guys go down this route right and he kind of predicted a lot of social problems that were happened today like weakness says his form of strength and he called you know that sort of morality the morality of the weak right so the strong is the guy who has more money more you know he's got more assets than you he does better than you so therefore you must be evil because you have more than me and he calls the opposite to slave morality so if you're a slave if you're the one doing all of the hard we sure if you're the one who's under the guise law wealthy right then you victimize yourself and you reward yourself when you die that's the knee just is approach to it that's his explanation for religion you reward yourself so I'm the victim in life and I will be rewarded in my afterlife right and that's why the slave morality has to vilify successful people of course you know there is another side to that to a lot of you know people who are poor are victimized and a lot of people are wealthy yes they leverage their wealth to create more wealth and they're not always honest about it but the interest thing about this discussion is that it's not one or the other day if that's what people get wrong to me it to me at least to me it's like they can coexist it's a balance you know not every rich person is a piece of [ __ ] and not every poor person is a victim yeah you know and then you know you have to be able to create have that the judgement to know when is when one is the case and one the other one is the case whereas I feel that at least in you know going back to politics people swing one way or the other it's always this or it's always that we have this dualistic view of the world where it's always black or white and the world is so much more complicated it's almost like they're watching a Disney cartoon talking about Disney cartoons yeah and their view of the world took a Disney cartoon there's good which is me whatever side of the fence I'm I'm always good right that is always the person who disagrees with me regardless of what side the fence they are right so and that those are the values those are only two values good and bad it is very simplistic you know dualistic kind of interpretation of everything and the truth of the matter is people are so much more complex than that right we do live in gray area neither of us are black and white man you've had moments you probably done stuff that you go oh I probably wasn't right there think you're not proud of I know I have a few of them yeah more than a few but you know we all do but like you know we all were all within the spectrum of what it is to be a person what it is to be a human or not we're not this or that he wouldn't call that guy's a liar like oh who is it who's never lied yeah who was never any one's a liar we all lied that you know some way more than others true but we all right there's a lot of different ways to lie I have made a concerted effort for a long time to always be as honest as possible but to say that I've never lied would be a lie you lie without realizing I'm not even aware of both of your lies a lot lies who just by omission Yeah right like people assume something and you never correct the assumption you know that's a lie you know by omission you know and especially if you know the person has another viewpoint that were they figured thinking yeah one way and you don't correct them you know so technically you didn't lie but you kind of did you know why you lie though lying is strategical there's a reason why we lie huge social benefits to lying so I read a book and it really it was like one most impacting books ever read in my life I would recommend it but it kind of [ __ ] with your head too so I kind of don't recommend this anyway but I'll mention if you want to go through with it it's called the folly of fools by Robert rivers right and if all you fools goes like this basically the logic of self-deception human nature you're constantly lying to yourself whether you realize or not because lying to yourself means you're a better lie to other people like politicians why it's not that they're lying they've convinced themselves of that light right so the best way to get someone to for your lie to fly under their radars is to convince yourself of the life first yeah right so if a line benefits you benefits you emotionally financially socially politically if it benefits you in some way you're gonna hide it from yourself so it better flies out of the radar and whether you realize it or not you constantly start doing this right so I start I read this book and I go I'm gonna start calling my own [ __ ] I started like analyzing everything I was doing I'm like am I wrong here am I wrong maybe I'm wrong here so I'll give an example you know you get into fights with your girlfriend your wife whatever and this is what was happening you get into a fight boom and then you go you know what I'm knowledge my 50% of the guilt what would that number is if it's 46 if you can quantify like that let's say 50 for argument's sake are you gonna go boom all right I'm guilty of this right here all of you what you're doing is you're taking a step to the middle to meet that person right assuming that person could do the same and that other person goes okay so what I would a second so now what was 50% of the guilt turns into 100% yeah now I'm at a huge deficit right because now I'm dealing with someone who it takes nope a share didn't does take their share of the blame I am 100% guilty of the problem now even though I may be not giving a very small guilt or you know yeah whatever let's say fifty four hundred stake and that puts me to such a disadvantage in dealing with everyone imagine like every relationship you have you're a hundred percent guilty all the time because you're the one being honest enough to actually acknowledge that you're wrong or the part that you're wrong at least now how well do you think you're gonna do in the world that way if you're always that honest guy and no one else take it no one's gonna say because it works well if everyone's being honest can you guarantee the effort from the other person because you're making an effort it's hard to be honest but you're at such a disadvantage if I p.m. on it's a social disadvantage and that hurts you financially emotionally politically socially and it's like one of those things like I understand why mother nature created lying because it makes it makes sense you bet a good thing about successful people I am I'm convinced man like way up there at the high echelons of society you've got a lot of honest people I don't I think it's I think there's some wealthy rich honest people there I'm not saying that you know if you can quantify that simply but for the most part man I think that it's almost like you have to be great at bullshitting yourself that you're the better person that you're a good person that you're always right and you know that you're you know you're that guy that can't do wrong and if you can [ __ ] yourself then people are more likely to believe you yeah well I think like for example I tell you I try to be as honest as possible like but there is a point where it wouldn't make sense of that for example if you're gonna kill me because I sort of believe at least to me my prime goes to survive yes all I say whatever you want just so I can get out of there correct and I'll continue being the real person I am I just survived an account you know like when I see people who died because you know like back in the day all renounce your religion like man I would never announced a heartbeat oh no no earth is flat a thousand percent if I are Galileo that nope flat it is if that's all it took you know the users acknowledging whatever you want me to say and I didn't have to do anything else like dude that's easy that's someone with a lot people argue that torture doesn't work because you confess anything under torture yeah okay did you kill JFK on represent I did you know you can Union have to start the torture I confess anything as soon as I saw those tortured Oh God yeah I used to waterboard me like no I did it I did it I did everything I don't know so I do I'm caught I wanted them that was not claustrophobic what's the word for a fear of water waterful must hide your okay hydrophobic to me the most terrifying way of dying is drowning for some reason that's like waterboarding to me sounds pretty [ __ ] scary yeah at least there's no like long-term damage as far as physically true but uh like when you see stuff like when I was in Spain they had a torture museum I went with my girlfriend and you see some of this stuff see Jesus they had like nail splitters what they'll put these things in your fingers and they would crank it up and it would slowly tear your nails apart they had one work they would put this giant metal it looked like a dog collar but the spikes were inside and they would just put it on you and then let you go and what happens is the weight of the collar over time will eventually kill you it will drop in and but you had like a couple days walking around with this giant metal thing I'm like geez these people were sadistic you know I don't understand like if I had the Opera there's some people okay let's let's pick the worst example possible Hitler right people ways pick Hitler's and if I could torture Hitler would I honestly I wouldn't know I don't want no I exactly either put him away you know you don't get them out of these bring him his misery or just you know keeping away place where he can't do people harm but I would take no satisfaction torturing anyone but I do believe it's some people social path you know in generally they would take pleasure in hurting someone when I look at that I'm like what kind of evil makes you want to do that to other people because I can't see a situation or I would want to inflict I would like it feed on you want pedophiles away from society you want to lock them up you want to do some you want to you know you know castrate them get rid of their genes you know you want to do all these things but I will not take pleasure in watching it I don't think I can't see myself to get pleasure and watch it anyone suffer there's one right man to me that says I don't I'm not sadistic enough to want even though I want that person punished and removed from society the pain inflicted pain on them it's not something that would gratify me I don't think the ideal situation would be you're able to reform somebody right like yeah someone did a crime for whatever reason and hopefully you could fix that but if you can't or it's irrevocably like to me like from what I understand about pedophiles or whatnot it's kind of a hardwired thing yeah it's strongly believe it's it's a genetic glitch I'm not a doctor you but from my understanding of it it's a hardwired thing like unfortunately something went wrong and they just have this predisposition to be attracted to young people you can't do anything with it get rid of them and then unfortunately that means execution or lockup for life or whatnot it's a it's a crappy hand at the same time I to me it blows my mind away when they put someone in for ten years and then they have to put the warning label afterwards right because they put them on the map right that or whatever there's an app for that isn't there yeah yeah yeah might be good my brother he has kids and stuff and you have kids too and he he looked when he moved to LA yeah and you're smiling everywhere doctor oh Jesus Christ like you put a tiger in a cage because you know his sexual appetite hasn't changed that's like the gross thing about this conversation is that like oh I changed my mind I like you know grown women now like no I [ __ ] doesn't change me if you're sexually attracted the wrong thing whether it's an animal or whatever you know you pupil some people attract really old people yeah it's their thing like you want the older the better it's me that's weird but I don't think it's a choice man I don't think like these things are choices that people make like I've been attracted to women and I remember being 4 or 5 years old my oh that girl's cute I like her yeah never crossed my mind like a little boy with a little boys cute and it's not a choice it was not that I chose you know it was just like I am attracted to that I don't think these people are choosing in them I don't think you know I really can't help I don't think you would rationally choose somebody I'm knowing the cost that I have right because I mean a day a day people want to be free right so you can't live free with that you're gonna get caught at some point and then your life's gonna be a living how and the torture that inflicts upon you and everybody that's associated with you is immense you know so from what I've seen a lot of these people are like tortured souls some of them are you know like they feel that immense guilt of it but it's kind of like if I told you Rob you could never have sex ever again it's like Jesus Christ pretty bad it's pretty bad it's pretty bad you know and you see what happens when you have people like you know priests of your bottle in it yeah you get all sorts of weird thing going on you know like I know who had that idea I was a [ __ ] the horrible idea it was horrible not have sex ever yeah you gonna be around like little kids with the rescue like oh you it's like it's a recipe for it what the hell were you people thinking man yeah the disaster right like you can't bottle bodily functions that are supposed to be expressed right like ultimately we are supposed to have sex to procreate it allows your genes to continue and so on it's not like saying yeah you can't do that it's like telling a computer you can't do it man idea no but uh 100% like I think that I if we can I know they were talking about manipulating genetics now there's a really good movie that like it's called Gattaca have you seen it yes all the time good because I love that movie because it talks about genetic engineering and always wonder like what will what would we want to engineer I'm fascinated by that question because there's some things that I'm not sure we win theory we would want to engineer oh let's make everyone more compassionate right is that a really good idea what happens about the guy was not compassionate who is not genetically engineered you think about the how much advantage he's going think of everyone who was like super nice to him guys in the king of the world right because every way imaginable like everyone's super compassionate and given except this one guy right what an advantage that is but I think that one thing we could all agree on is getting rid of these like nasty-ass genes that some people have man I like this like the pedophile to if it is genetic right and like could we get rid of that I think that's the one thing that everyone across all cultures throughout history they're gonna agree on yeah right way they're going okay let's get rid of that guy like so if we can alter genetics in the future I think that would be the first one on the list well I think that you're saying that the obvious dysfunctions for sure that you wouldn't I don't think anybody would want their children to be born with Down syndrome or where they need to truly blind or you know or being paraplegic or whatever so this is obvious like I think defects that I think for the most part everybody would say Harry those will be interesting when people are shoes you know you need to get some people might say oh be hairless blue eyes blonde you can actually make your child stronger would you yeah and then of course you want to but then that's [ __ ] up with the other people were poor and they can't do that their kids well then that becomes kind of like a genetic arms race really it's exactly what it is it's a memory man but we kind of already had that in a sense where at least I think my communist nations were doing that with our athletes yes hundred percent yeah I mean I think we were probably doing it for sure this is that guy's name Karelin yeah he looked like yes something wasn't Jack I don't know what it was or how much of it but that guy does not look normal man he looks like if a bear took in that took a human form it'll be Karelin this is a master's man yeah any like he invented that reverse body lift and mind you he's a heavyweight so for him to lift 300 plus pound guys above the flat you know not just just fat slobs we're talking about Olympic caliber wrestlers yeah it's like doing a deadlift to a snatch almost because he picks it's your thing go just think there's some things that like for ease of a deadlift is designed to be lifted the way they put the weights the way it's and now we're talking about an Olympic caliber wrestler who does not want to be lifted yeah right it's different you're very different things but you ever try to I mean pick up my daughter's put him to bed sometimes under asleep you know how hard that is they're tiny and if they're like falling away you got it's so hard to hold someone that doesn't care it's very hard to carry stuff like that you know I can imagine picking up like the rest was that this guy was picking this guy was a genetic freak and I don't think it was just his parents although his parents certainly played a role because just steroids don't do that by themselves you know either genetic component there is huge but yeah he definitely had something Russia just got kicked out of it did a bunch of Olympic sport I'm not enrolled in World divisions of rock or correct it wasn't the the now all the athletes were taken outs but there are allowing some other athletes I guess who didn't pop to compete but under a neutral banner yeah I don't know what that means so I guess he's still able to compete but they're not representing a nation because you don't I mean all athletes should be punished I get where they're coming from but they're the core the question is is there something that is institutional as well that's what they're saying it was like essentially the Russian machine was helping these guys fight test I think I'm not sure that was related to I mean they were caught with the Sochi thing and they're so big I don't know he's a thing like III look I think the punish brother percent but I remember watching a documentary called Icarus yes yes you've seen it's about a cyclist and he does all this stuff right and a lot of it I mean I'm sure that a Russian would watch that and go that's Russian anti Russian propaganda which there might be some truth to that it's our biggest you know next to China or one of our biggest rivals but what's interesting to me is that they this guy who was like I'm gonna inject myself with everything's like the host of the documentary and he ends up like taking like fifth or six at the race so what does that tell you like if this guy who was a psych he was not a chump he was not like he was about like a weekend warrior he was doing did everything those guys were doing he prepared himself and he took everything he still took like fifth well that suggests to me is that all right like are you really being successful in that particular sport because I know cycling is probably the most known for doping right I don't think that there is any other sport I mean be powerlifting maybe I don't know I think they test for powerless I don't know I know the Olympics they do I wouldn't think they would for strongman stuff yeah like my guess is anything so okay so cycling they do but I thought all the ones that they get tested I think cycling is probably the one that people dope the most right I mean Lance Armstrong is a freak of nature what he had been the best in the world without it probably not would he had make it top ten I don't know probably maybe I don't know I think he would have been like I don't know where he would sit because I don't know in that particular industry how much I I guess is like every the top ten are definitely on something that would be my guess well I can't according to where he was it everyone is all right he looks just the best one at it right because I guess there's a certain limit to the human performance right I mean if we're cycling is kind of at least from Mike's from what I can tell but it's pretty simple we're pedaling Yeah right and I'm sure there's strategies like okay you don't want to be in front the whole time that's why the app team does it changing simple strategy yeah yeah but you're talking about margins like this thing right yeah so when we're talking about point five percent improvement will win the race any word it's like that old Seinfeld joke the horse racing first place you know the margins are like that if the doping gives you a 2% increase that's you you're blowing everybody on the water that's true it's so close yeah so it especially something like cycling where it is you're right like the strategical technical aspect I mean it's frankly people that do what some other sports what do you mean it's not technical like you need come from fighting it's like yeah it's like running I'm super technical no it's there's some technique to it but I cannot tell me that running and cycling are super technologically it doesn't have the the complexity of martial arts martial arts first together because I think martial arts is the most complicated I like because there's so many ways you can move there's so many strategies I mean different ways you can win yeah easily win the race in one way yeah that's the only way you can wait there's no other way you can win a race so like you say there of course is a lot of technique and all these things like even with running the the proper like me and you probably run like cavemen compared to what an elite runner runs like they understand the cadence a gate how to pool using the ball defeat and Iran's a ton of thinking behind it but it's pretty much only one way to do it like you said yeah to win it race you gotta put your feet forward of right that's about it right where's fighting you might want to pull guard you might want to move forward you might win a cake you might want to punch so like there's so much variation and that's why I like it's it's we don't have a prototype of what's the best fighter yet we don't know because everybody's still experimenting you know like did the lab is still going and you've been off for how long now and it's still an act and laughs I think that we're getting close are you finding that perfect recipe for what how a fighter should be training we should look like and what height and all of that because another sports and gymnastic yeah you want me short yeah and a basketball you want to be tall obvious right fighting what do you want to be you see I'm saying I've seen a tall I think eventually we can we're gonna bring it down close to a medium yeah there'll be a short range or at least as prescribed set like okay you're gonna be this wrestler type prototype ground-and-pound this you're gonna be the striker tie prototype of this problem ball you're gonna be like a John Jones instead one thing that's been consistent throughout him inmates history though or its recent history is that most guys have a background very few people been successful started out with Justin to me never notice that like they start like I do Jiu Jitsu rest and strike and all develop all three of them together you know I think the vast majority of guys they either to come George come from wrestling hands down and then you know they're led to them like you know submission wrestling jujitsu striking whatever all my stuff but uh like it's it's it seems to me that that's the case I think for sure there's a there's a good especially for the guys coming from a wrestling background of what neck because it's like Ardea athlete pedigree and they're moving in I know at least in my gym since we are MMA from day one we have built a few guys okay MMA all the way through I think it's more just a sign of the times really think because you know mm Ain really hasn't started around like 2003 8 things start making and mainstream yeah yeah and even then it wasn't really mainstream yeah it was a mainstream until a crow Ultimate Fighter correct you know even because I remember like my school Miami was the first MMA school yeah lots of jiu-jitsu schools doing him in me you know like the silvera brothers we became the American top him all that and where'd you get to school and then they would have guys damning me but our school was the first we called their freestyle fighting back then because there was an MMA determined it made it nautical didn't exist yet but we call it a freestyle fighting but we were doing everything from day one like we punch kick apple all that so it's gonna be interesting to me in the future because I believe the best fighting formula has to be done to training mixed martial arts because as we talked about before as you call it the in-betweens you can't learn that in betweens in single discipline correct right it has to be done in totality and then you're able to expose that so I think as the fight game grows and more MMA schools come together we will see athletes that start from day one all the way up but there is a question of as you know because the bigger sports have more funding so there are going to be higher levels of research better training formula so I think that's why guys were coming from a wrestling background have a good advantage because they've trained through a battle-tested formula so they're already athletes they're already really well in shape and now we're gonna and they already have a very fundamental skill yeah requires so now we're just gonna inject this other stuff but they have to learn all those go-betweens ain't anything a guillotine a bunch of times and they get really good choke because they gotta floors every so often but like they learn through them but I do want to see like it's it's it's interesting cuz like we've been following the evolution of them a since the beginning and it's interesting to see how much it's changed how much it's drifted from jiu-jitsu at least could send me digits and volley to door when I started training with the same thing yeah there's like there's like a thin line between them now it's like completely different man like think about high level lapel guard you know entry the only in the contrast that was happening the UFC is like whoa man like these things were related at some point and back then it was very close manly you know it wasn't so different yes but even like when we train the train with open hands a lot of times when I first started training we take our keys off and we just like strike each other open hand I'm not in the head you know that's kind of [ __ ] up but we'd hit each other in the body who constantly slapping each other wooden you know I came in I'm hitting you you know it's kind of well when I was a wife but we train like that at least once a week you know but it's give you an idea of how close you know the association was between jiu-jitsu and the name yeah I know I started I thought he went from G condo and I remember me and my brother but there's a protective gear so we can hit and stuff it was only when I got into wrestling though that we started actually doing like I think I told you further we were doing backyard fights and I was like 14 it was me my brother we had this a champion at the time I won 89 Moses mcrainey yeah and he was a grown man pretty much he was big dude you know and then we had a couple of my buddies and we would just go at it with and I don't know why my parents allowed this to happen my parents are kind of hippie-ish yeah they just let things and all the kids are fighting back yeah like Moses like I think that 18 usually looked like a full-grown man you know hey man we were just fighting back there and my brother was the only guy who really utilized you just because I told I learned some submissions and you can go but I didn't really learn like I think I told you the pace that we had gone through they were showing 100 techniques like in the class yeah and then the next class totally different set of techniques so I never really learn anything I just everything mixed but my brother he had an armbar he had a triangle and he thinking of you're naked and I was like I'm one of the backyard fights he your armbar somebody and then I mean all this is wrestling my way to wins like I would just shoot people down and try to ground and pound them hey it's funny looking back at it I think there was a video that we brother had it would have to dig it up because it'd be hilarious to see that we'll be fine I'm gonna be hilarious to see what please post out on YouTube anyway Dave I gotta get going man I got I gotta go yes sir we have fun thanks for this Dave thank you for hope you guys enjoyed absolutely um and we will do this again next week when we could be pretty consistent yeah you know every week we've been pumping a mouse again thanks for joining us this is a episode 20 and guys if you enjoyed it please share with your friends it's not spread the word out there hopefully you know I once again suggestions send to me day with the breaking the guard account let us know anything you would like to hear us talk about more of this less of that you know we had some some suggestions for the Mike you know what I think we fixed the problem we have some sound suggestions I'm sure sure they really came was like that other than that people seem to be enjoying it oh and get a lower desk so we did that yeah and lower to desk in case you haven't noticed we didn't get taller the desk is like six inches shorter so yeah yeah we got you alright awesome guys see you guys next time Joe [Music]