BTG 26 - Experience & Rules

[Music] hey guys what's going on David Avalon here with Robert Drysdale for another episode of breaking the guard Robert how you doing today I'm doing great man I had a fun night last night the boys and here we are Stu our 26 episode 26 yeah number 26 I was just talking to you or etchant you were just telling me we had the was a who's number one um flow grappling yes and we had Keenan Cornelius go up against Roberto Jimenez yes and I remember when I first got here I think her brother was training at your gym he was a brown buff at the app and he's super young I think he's more like 17 I mean oh yeah at the time it would have been 17 18 yeah mm longer than when he was like going you know I first heard of him when he um it was exciting Royale some tournament they did it studio 5 440 ok and he was a blue belt he was beating some cuz I think they mixed up all the from my from memory you know don't quote me but I think they mix blue purple Brown and he won the whole thing as a blue belt oh well which was pretty impressive right so yeah so we just had a big wing win against Keenan this this past weekend it was a very close match I saw bits and pieces of it on Instagram I didn't see the whole thing that and I saw some people had some controversy with it I don't know I'm not the ref had another call but I wrote that was up by 2 and Keenan has his worm garden I guess he was doing who he was called warm wrestling because he was pulling onto a power point and he was rushing into a rental never Bret toe hold guard so some people saying all that should have been take down because Keene initiated like afford motion or whatnot but people said it was a very smart card full does it happen before they could take down could begin I don't know yeah but uh either way it was a it was a pretty good match yeah for my understanding of flow grappling was respond the promotion but I think that logistics of it was it by Seth I think so I'm not sure oh yeah is it a fight to win yeah a fight what yeah if I think that's what they because it had a similar form and reminded me a lot to fight so I'm wonder if like it was probably some costs but that's not a fight to win but I could be wrong I've hiked em I coached competitors for one fight to win in Miami and it was more like a judging criteria they weren't using points yeah I know they have a different system so this was this point IBJJF system out of my understanding it was score by points and revert I think scored all this points with Baron bolos I know it is crazy yeah the thing is um strategies is I think that I mean Keenan allowed him to pull guard I saw that first part right and a lot of times you know whoever sets the the stand and begin the fight normally dictates the the pace and where the fights gonna take place right so I always advise people to take a lot of care about beginning of the fight you have to be extra sharp I feel like it's you have to be sharp the whole fight really yeah like I feel like that in the beginning it's one of those things where that's gonna determine where the fights gonna take place so there's no room for error right I think maybe there's a mistake there Linden Pole well maybe not maybe I was part of a strategy but yeah that's great wingman what a way to debut beat one of the top black posts in the world first matches a black belt right yeah it's just but it reinforces something I've always said people think there's this enormous difference between you know competitive blue belts and competitive purple belts and there's a huge jump at the truth is it's not that big of a jump it's mainly experience like a badass brown belt can hang with just about any black belt in the world now they may not you know probably not gonna win the black belt division but he'd be up there with the top dogs and that's what happens as soon as they get their black belts what happens the next if they're winning Brownville the next year they're placing the black belt yeah they're right there if they're not on the podium they're very close to it so I think that the the we have this we mythologize the black belts so much like you're supposed to be the superhero the day you get when the truth is the guys that are winning at purple and brown belt level and man they're like a notch behind guys like Keenan yeah well I think one of the main things of being a competitor you can attest to is the mental game yeah and if you're already I mean if you're competing as a white belt that's not really singing but once you're getting them to like something purple territorial you're going against people who are very competitive at that point yeah and they're very skilled so the level competition could be just as fierce as far as a mental yeah that the amount of desire those competitors have so that might not change that much if anything they might be even hungrier at that point in the training just because they're trying to come up the ranks you know so if you still have that same mindset the skill disparity is not as much and I don't think it's as important either the type of game that you in a play is probably not going to change all that much for the most part is I move up the ranks you're known as that the green bowl guy or you're the leglock guy you're probably still gonna be that same guy throughout your career because that's what's made you really strong so you're still just gaining inches on that aspect as long as you don't have any giant weaknesses in your game they're not gonna really be I don't think you say going from brown to black is gonna be a huge no I think that the experience is a big thing I think that's like the P cuz you know even if you come up through ranks wide through Brown and you're competing like every other weekend you still far behind someone who's a head of black but for five six years in terms of the experience yeah but you're right there might be hungrier I think the technical disparity is a lot smaller than people think it is but it's it's more of a experience like they're lacking the they haven't made enough mistakes yet or someone's gonna black go for five years six years competing have made so many mistakes and the more mistakes you make the less room there is for more mistakes I'm talking tactically right we're talking like beginning of the fight knowing I don't want to be here with this guy really one over you're here and you don't know other thing is you know yourself you know your limitations better I think one thing about being you know like hungry and young in that sense is that you're unaware of your limitations and your what you can and can't do there's a lot of that Bishan like hunger but you don't always know yourself - well you know an experience gives you that like I know that I can really beat Dave here but I can't beat Dave there right where is like someone who is young is just like I'll beat Dave anywhere so sometimes it comes with that hunger is just being like I'll fight you anywhere and you know less strategical I guess is what I'm trying to get at know for sure I think now there's so many competitions going on that the younger guys are gonna have a lot of the experience maybe more experience and someone was a black belt early wrong could have got it because they weren't like when I started doing grappling competitions like in 2000 it was like one every four months yeah and you're getting like one two matches yeah I know so I remember like my brother and I early on had the advantage that since we came from wrestling and wrestling in three months you get like 30 40 matches you know so like we already had several hundred competition experiences whereas most guys here you know at least I don't know how I think in Brazil you probably had much more of a competition seen more than here at the website at that time but the guys here I mean some of them this is like the first scrapping match or the second one they're doing I've already done like couple hundred in wrestling yeah so that competition wise I'm already know like okay how the deal within their nerves and how to you know warm up and all that whereas I remember where I watch people warm-ups and you just it's still like that it's still it's still night I mean it's not adequate you know people coming in and they're they're breaking the first sweat on the mat see what I mean yeah it's it has to do with the sport being very young - but you're right like you know the back in the day remember like over the halls and I was in Vegas in 99 and 2000 John Lewis's school and there was the Copa Pacifica okay clever Luciano a thing ran that one and then there was a Joel Moreira invitation how's that that was it there was nothing else you know and then I think later grapplers quest started and they're all over the place and I never even fought Naga because it came only later you know I think that's yeah that yeah the East Coast I think I guess get some fun North East and I remember the first combat grappling competition was actually some type of karate full-contact karate man it was on carpet yeah right I mean you remember my brother it was like this was like 99 maybe 2000 and it's carpet and it was to like I guess like full-contact karate guys yeah it was grappling rules and I'm looking like we're doing this in carpet throwing stuff he said yeah you do right so first they didn't really know much what they were doing so took him down but I remember I did an armbar on the guy I almost knocked myself out it was like a mountain dog barks yeah yeah and my head hit the back yeah thank I finish the armbar but I learned a lesson that damn leg on this tree tuck your chin in yeah yeah yeah that's the thing about training the match you it creates a false sense of security when it comes to grappling you're like oh I can smoke everyone I went around like we put concrete a curb with you know us a slow warlike obstacles and the way it changes things dramatically it's like the self-defense is like a whole new ballgame man it's not something you can really prepare for in a very objective way you can have a loose idea of how to defender so I mean let me rephrase that not a loose idea you can have a good understand and what to do and what not to do in certain situations but you can't prepare because it's not a controlled environment and ever is yeah a lot of variables the next grappling tournament was Naga it was like Anaya Orlando I think in 2001 and we compete in that but that from that point there I don't think he ran the Naga for a while and my brother and I started hosting tournaments because we needed to compete and we wanted to create the venue ourselves and so we were doing like we were flying the Naga banner we had spoke with Qibla Co will represent you just one yeah actually the first time I heard and I remember you guys his yellow shorts like black stripe on yeah yeah and then I thought you own the event or something because if you're always like flying the Naga flag I remember that well yeah he was a big time supporter of us early and you know and I think it's partly because you know we hope to spread their word on that because before us there wasn't a nogi grappling scene in the US yeah and again South Florida particularly and eight or nine twenty minutes over like a two-year period for kid forget and it was our event but we were you know it's like not sponsored yeah yeah and uh I remember back then like big numbers for us was like 300 competitors you know that's like man it's very impressive but there was no internet really back then so it was making mail out flyers phone calls the way we sound way older than we actually are it's like it was not that long ago for people we visited before the Internet the internet existed but it wasn't like it was hard to reach out to people like it is now like the tools that we have now didn't exist oh yeah for sure I mean this is like 2002 internet was for emails that was it yeah nobody YouTube wasn't really a thing like that you know resource people weren't like sign up for email list it wasn't you have to be a super nerd yeah I mean it was it was yet to mail people stuff it the mail people stuff but yeah it was the vehicles from getting that information out and I was excited especially to an idiot like me and my brother we weren't business savvy at that point no we were just like making things happen on the father how do you do this okay this is trying to do it like looking back I'm like man it's impressive that my brother who was most of the brains of that operation I was able to pull it off because this is before we had actually met with lloyd irvin and understood like the business systems but we go we were like 17 18 running these things it's kind of creative it's pretty impressive it's just we ended yeah I remember 300 competitors that was like man we we killed it oh yeah and you look now man they get like 1200 something competitors oh it's insane yeah it's guyot's it's come huge um yeah but you've gone back the experience thing we were talking about like I was just talking max about this the other day like how much they wrestle and how much experience they got and even though like one of the reasons I left the United States in 2000 was I wanted to compete more there were like two tournaments on the west coast like maybe two maybe three tournaments we would jump into judo tournaments just to get the experience Brazil and the competition scene was a little more of an still not as advanced it is it's here or what or is it as it is in Brazil now but you can compete once a month if you really wanted you write them and we got the experience but it's still nothing compared to what you get in wrestling you know and I think dummies probably has over a thousand matches I don't buy the house of matches yeah and I was trying to think how many I have I'm like I don't know like best-case scenario 300 like I don't think I made it through I don't think I have 300 matches you know and get some of these guys and he's like he's like you know straight out of college over a thousand matches he's in his early 20s competed over a thousand times right and to me that right there is priceless you know you you really get to know yourself your your limitations and who you are um you know tactically like all of it you know I'm a big fan and you know with the conversation started like this we were talking about how can box and you do the same thing and the amateur to have like a hundred amateur boxing matches and the guys that animation do the same that was kind of like the art I don't like I don't think it's the same and you know because when it comes to sports like jiu-jitsu and wrestling I mean you get injured you train hard it's rough on your body we get that but I don't think getting hit in your head for a hundred fights is a good idea period for longevity even though the you need the experience I can't see like all all a hundred fights amateur and then you're gonna go pro and in another thirty fights you're like it's a hundred thirty fights what are you gonna punch the head and that's not counting the sparring which is where most of the damage comes from really sure you know so ya know is some sports it's just not it's not you it's hard to get that experience ya think I'm not a big fan of it amateur MMA in his current formation because it's just MMA with no pain and with less time it's that like every other than that is the same yeah yeah so you're not making it any safer yeah and that's the problem because at least in amateur boxing they have the headgear you know so it's like okay it's taken a little bit of blow although that's questionable too you know but uh but in like everyman Florida when they first started with amateur him and me they were doing standing eight counts so or even worse it's even worse all right cuz I yeah but they don't know that the people are no fighting there's no they don't coming from a boxing background okay give him eight counties and it'd be better for them no it's a lot worse and unfortunately I was on the receiving end of this I was coaching young athlete and again kind of because MMA doesn't have rankings this guy that he was fighting was a stud all right like he could have fought pro Jack there like he was a wrestler when that and I have a guy who's a good true amateur yeah no fighting I'm looking like this is not gonna go this guy's partying in the weekends this guy looks like he's never in [ __ ] check out go with my it looks oh god you're not the face choice he gets dropped immediately I think it over here myself boom eight count oh my god it's not gonna go well dude the second I am the guy takes him down half guard starts pounding him there's no oh no granite pound to the head oh that's the other safety mode okay he's getting pounded to the body account like what because the guy was over they don't stop it they're almost stop it they separate them it got started back up on their feet I was like Jesus Christ how do you lose but he's trapped by the rules yeah they're all started in the third the next time you got dropped and for two is a body shot they stopped the fight fortunately thank God I mean like that's gonna anything who thought of these rules and never really visualized now they they don't know there it was given in box I think it's brutal the 10-count to me is [ __ ] like I said the guy just suffered a concussion yeah he didn't even remember his own name you're gonna have him fight again he dropped it and that's exactly what happens like you know at least half of time to get dropped again and it's a concussion on concussion I'm just looking at that on well that can't be good no those you know they should just stop the get drop in your ass just stop the fight I've seen amateur I remember like I was in Sweden they had shoot Oh a B and C a was Pro and then they had B which was amateur which was I think I don't remember what the gear was and B but in C was like the low amateur like a beginner beginner level rise like would be like the white belt Division the equivalent and it was bigger gloves to open-palm gloves yeah shin pads and headgear and of course it made it a nightmare to grapple with shin I mean whoever's grappled with shin pads and and and headgear it sucks right but at the same time I was like kind of makes sense does it feel like you know how they have like a lot of like the winter warrior program and they're like you get all these guys that are in their early 40s and maybe they just want to fight because they want to do before they get too old they just want to have the experience it's a dream of theirs dude I respect the hell out of those people I've seen like journalists do that like businessmen and people you know what I'm gonna do it before it's too late and I just want to know what it's like to be in a ring right for people like that having some level of protection makes a lot of sense because they're not professionals that are not you know they don't they don't feed themselves and their family through fighting so it's different when you're like crazy even like going back to you do to like if you allow a few hooks at the professional level I understand danger but I think if you're a professional that's how you pay your bills and that's your life you take on that risk right whereas if you're understand why have you Jeff bans it as well yeah I'm like on the fence with that because I understand where they're coming from like 90% of our practitioners were like 95 or everyday people like they don't they can't afford to blow their knee right it's too much of a risk so I think that it makes sense to create safety barriers for other for the lower divisions but again so now you create a whole new all set so that creates problems too like I did Jeff doesn't wanna change that because they don't want to create a separate rule set which they kind of do already because they like logs out and that's what was my argument with them it's like you guys are already doing it you just got to add some new techniques of the brown and black built level but then that you know it's now it's key and no he why is it different cuz they want to create one rule set because the Nikia nogi the rules are identical mind you Jeff yeah but if you add the heel hooks it raises the question I can allow it in the key as well she's a part of me that wants to see that I just to see what happens I don't know if he's gonna be that bad maybe it will I don't know maybe this end because I can grab your sleeve yeah how do you deal with me if I'm holding your sleeve for sure it might be easier to defeat it when people talk about they only see the defensive draw back in the sense that there's so much friction that spinning escape is going to be near impossible to do yeah but then again that's not the best escape that's not suppose exactly that's the art maybe not supposed to spend yeah I mean that's your last ditch yeah I mean like you were slow on the uptake and you're feeling the pressure now you have to go with it I mean but like if you're doing everything before that you said yeah if you can grab your sleeve here that's gonna make it a lot easier to pull grips get close twist my healing so I mean I guess they're the same with everything even with you know with arm bars or whatnot you know people say oh it's hard to escape the arm bar the same thing if you're grabbing your own stuff I don't know I would think yeah it's it does it does you're right like getting out of it if you're caught will be very difficult but then getting out of any lock submission is difficult yeah find me a submission you're caught and it's easy to get out of I'm seriously one that's a whole the whole point is for it to be hard to get out of your quad right but I think is at during the fight while they fight for the hook if you control the sleeve would be very difficult for you to catch me and that grip is very difficult to break it's like breaking asleep in 50/50 is a [ __ ] nightmare man don't you have to control the heel of one hand yeah just looking here and then you're trying to go the other hand they connect and if I have a good hand the one that you really want then you can't finish it also I think that you know it might not go as bad as people think it would go there was one tournament that allowed it it was probably my favorite competition of all time it was butoh challenge in two thousand four or five it was four without the one with exciting Gracie's burrow challenge I wasn't there I can bid in there yeah yeah I lost designs in the first round in the Riu and Iggy no that was an ugly one Oh doing a noogie one I always have the key one I keep their window at Mary Hickson really yeah I didn't know he didn't know him well but that you know you should 2004 so this one was 2007 2008 or I think late - that was Gracie a little challenge I did - oh good I remember the one I compute I've also showed you two masters I I love the ruleset because it was three points for near submission so they applied the IBJJF criteria which is basically the referee has to interpret that it was a near submission and you have to be defending because if you're not defending there can be no danger my definition right so it was three points for near submission and one point for position I fill that and I've made this argument a million times they found a happy balance because they made the submission of priority which I think it should be but they didn't can position yeah I think I've used you have over prioritized position submission only swung the other way they didn't solve this solve some problems created others by only allowing submission not private not giving positioning any value there's a reason why no one's ever gonna rest from submission all because it makes no sense yeah unless you're both wrestlers you both really want to be on top but the stylist can develop from that is a very anti wrestling style right pull guard because it makes more sense strategically but when you're still given a point before a takedown before a pass for a sweep it makes you like okay I don't want to take it out yeah you see what I'm saying like I don't want to get swept like that's gonna cost me down the road right and I love that rule set and they allowed him hooks in the geek no one went for them ironically I think maybe people did but like I don't remember anyone finishing a find a oak but they were illegal I remember uh Marcel Darcy it was in that tournament he lost a camera Earl that guy camera are all likey I think he's been a couple of times though you just had as marshals he's the one guy that yeah I'd assume that he dumped us got fair beam or sell a few times to and and then he got foot locked by okie like she neo ki and and I remember like I'd never seen him before you know cuz like the the BJJ scene was very Brazil us like I didn't know they had like that I mean we know they had good grabbers but like there's no way this guy's gonna beat the guy who just beam are solar so yeah that kind of thing right and I remember he broke Cameron's foot and I remember but like in the middle of the foot like right in the middle that's where he was complaining the pain it wasn't like D and it made no sense to me at the time because I'm thinking well it's a straight foot lock should be the Achilles right like why is he complaining about and I finally could like meters later I start foot lock in the way he was doing it or you bite the end of the foot and you apply pressure to the top of the foot to finish and it's a much better straight foot lock that's the way Felipa does wake up vodka does it the way I've been doing it and I like it way more than attacking the Achilles but I okay was doing that like you get the very end of the foot and you crank it but um yeah and I know he'll hook stone which is surprising but I lean towards allowing it I think the sport would benefit a lot even if you know I mean probably more injuries overall I think what you said just maybe allow it for pro divisions and black both division like that but unless I story is Shinya Aoki we also my brother grappled him at ACC 2005 same thing didn't know who he was yeah because I remember we both drew Japanese opponents in the first round and I don't know who my guy was either fortunately I went my way I won that match pretty dominantly but we're fresh in you he's a really good wrestler judoka style and they were going back and forth and he kept doing this standing arm lock that my brother's arm he said he felt his elbow pop every time but he just ate it and then got back up from the clinch and they clinch it from a rush until one yeah he does it I don't know Justin way sniewski or Keith presidents keys arm in the scheudle fight I think that's the highlight that I said yeah he snaps and he's mean about yeah he's really he's a mean fighter in generally yeah he's not there to play you know he's tiny cakes with you yeah cuz there's no time to tap it's one of those submissions and you're either gonna hurt him or not it's a minute real yeah yeah so my brother got hit without three times he just he he lost him in overtime I think in my buzzing man how is this guy surprised more people only use that name it made me think about it because I understand where she Nia's coming from because there's an ethic there's an ethical boundary that we have in the gym there's like this dis disrespect towards your partner's health but when you're in competition I'm not saying I would do that but at the same time understand where he's coming from it's war you're out there you're out there to win if you gotta hurt someone to win father I'll totally do that yeah but like - all the time but but the idea is known in the gym like I wanna show this technique because my brother actually hassled them to figure out what it was after ATC's I can you show me she did get walking away my brother's like show me the movement you think okay finally he showed him yeah and he had a unique grip which he had see rather than grabbing the wrist he would grab like if I grabbed your hand yeah so it's not he could good show your elbow so he and it's a hard grip to pull away from ya so he would from the Russian kid grab here and then throw right from there and manicure and he does a kind of like a horikoshi where he would step over your legs yeah well so not only are your arm gay a lot you're gonna get thrown land in your head probably who's got no harm where's the thing about being like you have to practice that well how do you get good at it you how do you get good at something that hurts people that's tricky you see what I'm saying because and it's not like in theory like I do it cuz if I have to hurt some to win I'll do it okay but I don't have the skills to do that yeah cuz I've never developed it like this guy I mean there's no way how do you get good at something unless you has to do it in the gym you must be doing it to people in the gym I mean you could tell felt the confidence you could probably do it in a safer way just without the arm lock maybe just doing the Russian tool one with the hair right I mean if you know how to do it the hair I go she you know just a hip throw the only thing you're adding us is controlling the arm yeah yeah so I think that's a movie you can learn how to do without doing it alive although you probably get more experience but the same time how many people swaps can you break I know I know Lexa's is the same way like yeah we've been practicing that like I've been showing people though the scissor takedown blood brown bones break their legs I blew my new ones someone did it to me and they blew my knee it's you can practice it controlled environment have a chat with people right beforehand like dude you know this is you have to jump kind of high don't jump on the knees sort of thing don't you know don't try to resist you know fall down when they jump sort of thing but you you have to provide me it's a very very efficient like Oh keys and the scissor takedown these are moves that I think that we all benefit from from learning something for sure about them now that I think about it they do get one like I should sort of teaching nothing but make class that makes so much sense like on the fence to my head like I know like if I have a Whizzer I can like like if I really whip it I can pop your elbow in that Whizzer right but if I have the under hook over the oh if I have the Whizzer I grab your wrist and then I can just turn away if you have the or the wizard on me that's the handy controls right yeah I think the way there's two ways of doing yeah there's a few ways of doing though one of them that he has a video online where he shows it it's awful underhook he's doing the under hook and that guy has a wizard yeah grabs here turns and goes yeah alright so he uses your wizard against you but you could also get it from a Russian to him ones similar your grip is going to be a slightly different because of the under hook their arms gonna be over his shoulder yep with the over hook you're gonna be behind the shoulder yeah you still get the same type of pressure of driving down but yeah it's a good move in general Russians are a solid mood because you have control this near arm you know and people like oh he could put you with a free arm like with what power yeah he's punching with his shoulder back like this he's just slapping in defense the thing about a lot of people that are critical of grappling they're always like all the guys gonna punch you she's gonna punch you and it's like it's not that easy to punch someone in the fight like not I mean you can taught you I'm not gonna hurt them yeah because think about how much technique goes into boxing to create the power to knock someone out standing for sure and then you on the ground you don't have all those mechanics it's an arm punch nine out of ten it's an arm punch I think turtle position is the exception that's why I always say that turtle position is in number one TKO position in the game is because that's the only position you actually put your body into way to get some power out of your punches but look at the punches from half guard punches from side control it you know now are a little bit because now you actually got some gravity on your side right but even in close guard I think that if it was oh my god that guy's gonna ground and pound like it's a scariest thing in the world like you looking at ground and pound from close guard it's always like nine out of ten punches land in the body then will do any damage at all every now and then like one of these I'm not gonna pound yeah I'd like personally I like being in the guard to throw ground pound but you have to practice it and I don't see a lot of people people hit the bags all day they hit pads all day you don't see people hitting ground dummies all day yeah and like when I was training for MMA Oh most of my stuff was ground pound yes I had a very simple game pack I'm gonna take you down hold you up beat the crap out of you yeah I mean and then if you turn it over way then I'll go for some issues yeah but the thing dynamics of granite pound is very different because most of your power comes from your hips so when you're standing up that's easy but like you said when you're ground your hips are limited mobility especially in the guard you can't really twist right you kind of square so the second way you could generate powers from your shoulders alright so that's why I like phaidor was a really good granite pounder true and have you see how fade out punches they're all shoulder punches yeah maybe but it's body and you ask to any punches kind of look funky they they kind of turn over that way and he punches that way so like I monitor on my ground huh that way a lot of my grandpa's over hands and loopy punches so I can get my shoulder behind it out and it's also about posture you have to have a strong yeah Hofstra to stop siring the power all the time I see people on MMA like their head to head and then there's nothing there the guy in bottom arguing has a better chance of cutting you with elbows elbows like that's that's an argument for Ferguson beating cabeza that's coming up soon yeah because khabib does pass with his head down a lot like his head is constantly down with his Brian because he's a grinder right yeah yeah and Ferguson's got a lot of elbows so know that people are like making it like you say easy to be player I think that's a very difficult fight because so this degree is good groppler yeah Ferguson is a good grappler and he's just also an animal it's not a one from that he and I had my girlfriend looking up he had the same injury though completely CL Terry and for me that was like a year to get back he fought like three or four months later so not only did he manage to recover in a strange man he had a training cap at the same time as I say that's totally nuts yeah you know so I think it's the toughest fight for Cup even that division is Ferguson I can't think of I mean everyone how McGregor Mike McGregor sells tickets but stylistically he's not the most difficult fight for a guy that could be you yeah because I'm gonna wrestle it's that simple another thing is McGregor is not a gas tank either yes he needs to be able to win early or control it the pace and true he's not able to do that with anyone who presses him yeah true and the guy like I mean it same thing happened with me when he wasn't able to put him away in the first fight he got into the deep waters and got jacked up and then the second fight even it was kind of back and forth a bit you know he wanted the end so Gothica bibi's is gonna be able to pressure him and come he was shown that he could hurt you too Wow like he dropped them with that overhand you know so it's a much harder thing I think a guy like Ferguson is stylistically a much more dangerous match offense I'm very interested in that match I think that's think and Ferguson should have been the chant you know because he was a champ originally and then what happened there he had the knee injury oh that's right but I guess the UFC figured all he's gonna be gone for a year he's got a bit of worship belt but then he fought in the same event that were fighting the bell for ya huh it's gets gotten too weird man like it was like the whole bad [ __ ] felt like right there just like doing weird stuff like yes i selling the replica belts you know that they have what they selling the belts that people all do have the belt at home oh you can sell it anyone can buy it how much 850 bucks huh yeah they did I here's the thing I'm not the owner no I mean Dana's a smart guy I smaller than me but it just doesn't make sense to me I think you lose so much credibility when you do that but again you know you make money so credibility money you know IIIi lean towards conserving the brand that's what I would be doing is try to concern conserve and preserve preserve the brand for posterity Yeah right so it never loses its credibility it goes on for centuries to be the number one of them a promotion on the planet right but you know when you give you take you strip it from titles and then you're finally have them fight on the same card and you stripped it because they couldn't fight it but they're fighting on that card that doesn't make how is that how does that even a Doug yeah that's why I didn't and he was still funny anyways I mean granted you probably did we cover that fast but still you know it's kind of unfair to him they know he's not making and it's a real financial cost for such a title as a champ not only to make it more money for fight and you're probably gonna headline in the bank a pay-per-view share you know that's what anyone wants is the $1.00 per pay-per-view that's the real deal right there they also sponsor worse I think that the champ gets more money than anybody else with this Reebok deal yeah so I mean that's that's it the Reebok dude stop that much one I remember let's get at it and it was like these guys we're getting paid like 2500 to start the yeah and then it goes up to 50 grand or something at the higher tiers but hey which sounds like a lot but when you're making millions and you're making fifty thousand from sponsorship it's nothing yeah people again you don't have a perspective on it before I believe people were making more money off their sponsorship than they were off the actual fight back when the UFC didn't have the Reebok deal and people were able to get their own sponsors because first of all you're not getting one sponsor you're getting like five or six different sponsors and you have the front or short the back of their shorts the banner you have your walkout gear yeah cornerman attire so you had so many spots yeah you could sell that uh well that the rule the rule of thumb went a good manager will get you as much as you got for your fight and sponsors yeah difficult thing to meet like you're very gonna hundred grand a fight it's not easy to sell 100 Rand sponsorships but like a good manner to get close to that yeah you know I back in a day like you know the right guy all right people you get close to that number and that's all like in other words that was almost half the fighters income yeah and he got chopped in half overnight yeah and that was a big hit MMA fighters took in like it's surprising how the UFC kind of hold on that kind of totally got away with it like people complained but what are gonna do about it like we're the UFC and that's the thing about having like what is not a monopoly but it's close to a monopoly in a lot of ways it's now you have so much leverage over people it's like it's take it or leave it you want to fight in the UFC I'm gonna pay you this much you're not gonna get any penis response errs yeah and that's that what are you gonna do about it yeah everybody's talking to a buddy of mine that left the UFC went to Bellator he's like I'm making double the money I would have now because I can get the sponsors exactly you know sounds like yo is a good business decision yeah I don't blame you it's a lot but the thing is that you UFC carries the prestige and it's the fighters I think they're more motivated for prestige early in their career at least than they are for money later in life I could see that changing you got family you got bills the money becomes a bigger factor but I think early in life it's more about prestige that's how you explain the Olympics yeah that's how you explain IBJJF right like how do you explain people killing themselves and crying when they win and like because it's not the money that's getting these guys out of bed every morning it's the prestige it's the this is a sense of accomplishment right that the pride you have of having your hand I'm a world champion and the UFC even though you know they do pay people they know that and they'll ever leverage that a lot against their their fighters because I've heard this from fighters or they'll say no to other organizations and sign of the UFC because they I just want to put the gloves on like it's it's a fetish like they want to put the UFC glove on so you'll see I go because they've been watching you have seen those black little gloves with UFC on them for decades man so it's a dream I just putting those gloves on ain't gonna leverage that against the fighters then [ __ ] you if you don't like it I know quite a few people that once I guys like you have seen they were done yeah it was a dream yeah it was it they set their aspirations low in my opinion because if I'm going to the UFC it's because I want to win the title yeah but they just wanted a participation medal I got his improv instead of me I understand like why that would be was like playing for the NBA or the NFL like you know it's impressive but I'm with you it was like we'll give this [ __ ] unless you're in my head I'm like you know I never made it adopted like I would have to me at least make it the top five so I go like all right maybe I didn't win the title but I was up there yeah you know I'm saying but not just all I was on an undercard you know but but still man I think there's there's something about you DFC is a special event I feel like because they they got the whole thing even BJJ owes a lot to the EOC I don't think this I mean BJJ would it exists as we know it would it blow up and I don't think it would have blown up in Brazil you know why because it was dead in Brazil there was nothing happening like there were people practicing but it was like I grew up in pers I never heard it it's a judo and Taekwondo in karate I know those couple air I know those are popular martial arts Jiu Jitsu as in practice by the Gracie family I never heard of it too always crazy you know and it was very niche man and then you know once art Davy and and Orion put the USC together by the third one he remembers name though but that right then the next year IBJJF was founded which is interesting to start at the same time you've seen 93 IBJJF was found in 1994 even though it wasn't called IBJJF I was called CP JJ okay but it was a sim organization um but like I really think that the UFC is what got this whole martial-arts revolution but give it a boost and it existed in Brazil did you existed him it may exist in Brazil but there was no visibility yeah you know and he could say like all there are people are in Japan they were doing the same thing that's true they had Nicole sign Judah that's a very similar was injured so they had their shoot though which is a bit of a right and I've been going on forever I didn't blow up did it yeah it wasn't shoot - they blew it up well you know it was at the end of the day it was it was a UFC it was that's what got everything going yeah you need the eyeballs that's always been the problem I guess with Japanese promotions is that they don't have enough eyeballs you know even though like you would see the stadium's like when you have Pride FC you're like loaded but pay-per-view numbers weren't there to support the model yeah they sold tickets right but I think that a TV deal that was it was profitable I'm not sure of the details I know there was like some some sketches stuff to win the back yeah but like I mean they were huge I mean they they had to be prov I imagine they were profitable to some extent like how you did were still in out Saitama Arena there's like 120,000 people like that alone okay you got to be at least cover expenses with that much I miss I don't know I love the rules better I like the rules better - I like the rules I like but my favorite thing about pride was the audience the crowd it was they were so respectful man and I I may be I'm Japanese in some ways but because like when I when I see him in May I don't see a bar fight I see a ceremony I see two warriors people that are very dedicated and I understand how dedicated these guys are and I understand how much it means to them this is not a bar fight this is not hate as always violence the violence involves hey there's no hate in there this is just love anime is love it's passion I'm in there cuz I gotta prove a point to myself or maybe it's to your dad cause you're pissed off at that or someone else whatever the case is but there is there's a passion there right it's nothing against the person across in fact you really respect my talk trash above that person to sell tickets yeah and I understand the truth of the matter is you really respect that person that person kept you up at night yeah that person was stopping you from sleeping that's how much he respected you were killing yourself on that treadmill right because you respect him so much you really don't want to lose yeah you know so and and I feel that the crowd was a manifestation of this ceremony right in Japan where did you get the Western crowd it's you know what are you doing lay on top of them you know that's gay or there though don't be Bowie or you know and as I can't even watch it from the crowd and the president crazy it's just a different vibe so I can appreciate like I've absolutely like one of the weird experiences I had was fighting a bulldog fight because there was no crowds at least at the shows that I went to they were taped in like secluded areas so the only crowd were other fighters no and coaches so it's kind of weird because you're hearing like 20 people yeah you know but there's cameras everywhere you know you're expecting the noise yeah it's kind of the weirdest one was when I fought in Costa Rica because we're fighting at ten o'clock in the in the morning just odd for a fight yeah so you wake up so I gotta fight like a must with almost corner of me in that one so you know lost my mouthpiece I had to get like a boil and bite back you know those cp1 man I sense one and boil it in the coffee water yeah so it was a horrible the whole thing was yeah it was like bottom of the bag pubic hair and it was disgusting okay and where the walkout was on the beach so they had the the ring on the beach with a big canvas on top so you're walking to the beach and I'm looking like and this doesn't make any sense this is what yeah this is so weird and then you have but you see the ocean right there in the way you scratch him so they take the the sound that was totally off but I remember I didn't feel like I was walking into a fight yeah but uh you were gonna get that back environment like really misses people up like I think that's why I like people who do like Ultimate Fighter or when they're doing those hey closings and they come from there they don't fight as good as when they finally because it's a very different feel you know lay em I imagine the Ultimate Fighter experience must be very weird because you're living in the place you're close by to where you're hanging out with the people you're fighting you know it's we're tired you woulda been watched by like 20 people I could never I was I've been a coach on the fighter three times the first time I was very close to being on the actually I actually I tried to be on the show as a fighter but the one that the Frank Mir was going against the Nogueira thing he was on there and then you know what happened was like they had just changed the rules you had to be at least three professional fights to be on there before the previous season they allowed before oh and oh so I call him in and they had just changed the rule so that couldn't get on there but like after I was in there as an assist as an assistant coach I'm like thank God I didn't do this I could have never there's no way man I I get just like they're in your face every day cameras in your face every day the drama or the BS and you got to fight your friends he's supposed to like this person hang out with him and you got a fight of the next day you can drink you can drink I remember one time they were given an earful for for drinking right so they have the cameras showing that then pull all the alcohol out of the house this is a chance of a lifetime blah blah blah you guys should have a party so they have the cameras are showing them pulling all the alcohol out of the house and as soon as the cameras were gone they did bring it back in and I saw I'm like you gotta be kidding all right they're not serious like it's like that's when I started like everything is a show yeah like none of it is actually real like every single and then the people that fall into it too like that because once you realize it is a show these guys are an actor so it's reality TV but it's not really real because they know that they're being filmed so they change so they start acting the way they normally would have happened you see these people are yelling at each other and I'm like you guys don't dislike each other why are you yelling at each other like why are you talking to each other like that nothing ever happened and you look up to the cameras off you got to get entertained the crowd so they turn into actors but without a script that's what happens it's their actors with no script I was part of a reality show there was like this Spanish that judge show and it was such a [ __ ] premise I was like the son wanted to be a cage fighter and the mom didn't wanted to be a cage fighter so they brought them over to him to train him and show the mom but he could do well why not it was all fake like the mom was a mom it was just some like ya know reality TV show is not a good name I think you should be like a loose script acting kind of something like because the it doesn't really it doesn't really up or try people and in their real selves yeah the only way you would do it would be like that movie with Jim Carrey when they don't know they're being filmed was it called I know you're talking about I know you're talking about the movie yeah he's in the big globe yeah yeah because then you see people behaving like they actually would if they don't know they're being filmed yeah that's illegal all right Dave I think it's uh it's time you get back to it I go grab some lunch yeah yeah you've been training now what's weightlifting you know get back in there I gotta get back in to think this risk is getting better is this I had I've done a couple of privates here and it's feeling a little bit out they were at one time I went there like it was last year like No my wrist is getting jacked up like bad but I feel the thing about my hands too is like the less because I have all these Rangers so the less I trained the weaker they get yeah and it's hard to come back and then when you start trying to get them back in shape by using them they start hurting again so you can either be in no pain and completely out of shape or get your hands in shape and be in a lot of pain like you can't you can't be have your hands condition can not at the end of it you know I've been I've been waiting and deadlifts and squats and that dress is like it's I feel it every day because every time I'm doing these lifts is yeah it hurts and form curls and stuff it just gets better but I've been using that little wrist brace yeah it helps keep it a little bit straighter because like the Meccan even injury didn't make any sense to me I was doing a straight arm pull down it's just like cables doing this and in the middle of the pool it just popped really loud right here back that's like what uh-huh oh my go maybe it's just like a ring cracking and my arm started locking up and I hope my hands start gonna be done oh that's not good yeah I've had weird injuries like that like out of nowhere just yeah I told my minutes was sitting down no one believes me I just I would like I was in class I remember I did this right and I leaned on my knee and I felt it and like [ __ ] what is that and after that my name was never the same I needed surgery but I mean it was probably that was just like the cat accepted I just come from my two camps back-to-back and but I just lean on the name poop and I felt it similar things with my shoulder I remember I wasn't next to the cage watching a fighter and then I went to reach over I did get my fist bump to shoulder way I think a body being stressed will do that like you're more likely to like anything won't yeah you know it's like when people get injured you usually get injured at the end of the training session because why you're tired your strength like your car yeah you always got to be good like I've popped so many ribs you know what I get towards the end of training and that's why I like now like I remember when I started coming when I came here to start training with you right I'll tell you I just need to sit out you're like I remember like back in the day would never sit out of a round because that's being a [ __ ] I mean but like here I'm like I know I gotta respect the limits now I know you like when I start fleeing a little bit off of my head okay let me stop now because if I don't respect this feeling I know that is it there's a chance I could get hurt anybody won't but I know that there's a good probability that I will something okay you know what I gotta I try to do that with my guy because I know that you bright people get into the very last round as long as the one of people get injured so I never tell them it's the less room and what I would do is if I want to give him another push is I I control it so it's like hard drill and like takedowns back to back like something he could push them physically yeah but it's controlled it's not live yeah because yeah it's such a common theme in the last final round guys final round card push and I think people there would be cuz her guard is down because they're tired and they're not you know the less the body be not as sharp probably doesn't take care of itself as well but they tend to push even harder because it's the final round right so trying to be careful but uh let's do this again soon Dave and I'll catch you again when let's do this again it looks that's Wednesday yeah yeah alright good [ __ ] alright thank you guys thank you for watching and I'll see you guys next time [Music]