BTG 31 - Josh Hinger

[Music] hello everyone this is our second out out of studio episode of breaking the guard I am Robert Rizzo my co-host David Avalon and our very very special guest here Josh anger one of the coolest guys in all JJ DJJ Thank You Josh for being here my pleasure you know I got a really busy schedule these days and I did a lot of things to make time for this what I do because I can't travel so I just hit pretend that I'm traveling people are constant eyes I'm like I know this is an excuse it's an excuse it's on auto yes automatic to say I'm busy like you're busy doing nothing do it like I'm doing like to podcast daily like Rob you got time for podcasts I got like all day for more than enough time you send a text message right now someone leaves you hanging you know they're just saying [ __ ] you you know you know race I like they didn't want to very very stupid times you got going on here I almost have like a challenge out of can we cuz everyone's talked so much about this coronavirus thing over the past couple weeks I was like is it possible to have a podcast without talking about this I don't think it is because everything we talk about is gonna lead back to the coronavirus it's almost like mission impossible not to talk about it because it's affecting everything so yeah it's hard not to you know it's affecting you just respecting business is affecting life relationship I was like it's hard to avoid that 10,000 ton elf in the room at this point you know I mean it's something else I tell you though I've been prepared for this for decades I've been practically social system before I was a thing in West Virginia for two years well they're the only person I saw on a daily basis was my girlfriend so I feel pretty comfortable in this type of environment right now this room I see monoplanes this reminds me a lot of my time Peace Corps like I'm getting flashed back to my Peace Corps days well I mean I sat in a little Turkmen village for two years and I had no internet I didn't want to socialize with anyone because they're super annoying and I just read books I sat in my room I read books I'd taught my English classes and then I just killed time all day long and this is exactly what it feels like oh wow so just you know let's go the store with that then let's tell us about your experience in the Peace Corps cuz I you hadn't mentioned that to me but we never really got into it so walk us through you know what would that experience was like what got you to volunteer in the first place that's a stupid story okay so I was in I was in I was an undergrad at the UCI and I was studying political science and my emphasis was on former Soviet transition into democracy and and capitalist economies they seemed like how these countries came to be after the collapse of the Soviet Union and yeah I was writing a research paper and I was watching that movie Shallow Hal remember that movie Shallow Hal I don't think of it like the guy he's Chris and he can only see people for what their personalities are so when he sees someone who's like a really terrible person he physically sees an ugly person and then it sees someone who has a very beautiful personality he sees a physically beautiful person like he can't see them for their actual physical appearance because he was a very shallow guy and then someone cursed him so he had only see people for the the inside so anyways in the movie the characters are in the Peace Corps and I was writing a paper and I saw this I was watching this movie no Zaida started googling Peace Corps and I just started looking it up and I was like wow I can I can go live in another country for two years and it won't cost me a dime so I literally fill out the application to signed up right then and there and then yeah it's so stupid but the process I'm just gonna say like it's it's what a beautiful place to be to have the freedom to do that the youth on your side and the the courage right today I'm just gonna go live in a random country for two years and that sounds like itself it sounds like an amazing adventure like it sounds like so exciting just to think of that if you don't have come I can't I couldn't do that today you know but there's a time our life so we can all actually do that and not everyone actually has that that sort of adventure right and I was in that place where I was my last year of undergrad and I had to figure out what I want to do with my life and I couldn't decide on a career path so this was like a stall tactic for two years like it's like not commit to a job or a career or anything and just go see the world and kind of figure out what I want to do then because I had a lot of free time to think but you know what I realized when I was over there I loved jiu-jitsu that's that was the Epiphany I had in Turkmenistan because I was a blue girl that I had been training for two or three years I was a good blue book maybe like four stripes and then and then I got taken from me I had no jujitsu no exercise no training nothing for two years and then that's when I had the revelation that I loved you too so much that I never want to stop doing it ever again that's so many things you have to miss it to appreciate it right yeah and they think everyone's having that epiphany right now that reminds you of the Peace Corps yeah because that's I'm having like I'm reliving that a same epiphany I'm like [ __ ] I love training so much and now that I can't do it I'm [ __ ] going nuts no I had a similar experience like I was telling when I was in West Virginia it's the same thing there there was no Jiu Jitsu well there was two Gigi's of schools wonnum was run by Gracie Jiu Jitsu online blue belt and I forget the other one but needless to say the skill level wasn't really high you know so I just took the time to work on myself and I was doing a lot of my online businesses then but I essentially when they get to year stretch without really training and I felt the same way I thought well let me see what it's like and this I'm already up I blacked out at this point I've pretty much retired already it's still there after two years in her hand I need to get back into martial arts now so fortunately moving here to Vegas connecting with Rob that definitely brings it up but it's a good point that Rob was saying though you have to have some long you know like I feel one of the best experiences that were wrestling gives you as you truly understand what well you have a better understanding of what real hunger is okay cutting weight for days you know yeah starving and you're working like when someone says oh I'm starving and like they've never cut weight before like are you really though the thing about cutting weight what makes that so difficult in my opinion is the fact that it's not that you're you're starving and you can't eat the problem is that you're starving and you can eat if you want to that's the hardest part so you're like it's not like you don't have food around like you don't have an option you're like oh I'm starving I can't eat I don't have food is nothing I can do about it so have to deal with it but the problem is like no I'm hungry and there's [ __ ] food right there in the fridge and I just man I could eat it but then I'd have to you know cut more weight later you know what was so hard there's just no you can't drive you can't watch TV you can't go on the internet without seeing an ad for food yeah you know how Facebook targets you for like what you can talk it's like it knows you're hungry because you talk about food all the time so it's like sending you like Wendy's and like ads and like Arby's and all this does nask food that normally it's not even touch but when you're cutting weight like Wendy sounds incredible Taco Bell sounds in crumb you know and how much hatred do you have for your friends who eat in front of you I've actually seen people get borderline get into fights over stuff like that get away man what are you doing real little fact that the other person's enjoy their life because you know they can in 2013 I was pretty wait to make middle weight for nogi worlds and actually kind of do arch was living with me then and and he cooked I had to lose like 16 pounds to make that way and I was probably like three weeks into it three weeks away from the tournament and I kind of coat some lasagna in our kitchen in the apartment and then the whole apartment smelled like lasagna and yeah big fat lasagna on the table and I just walked in my snow lasagna is my [ __ ] favorite I was like what are you doing I literally yelled at him to this day he remembers it like I was actually really mad at him for not being considerate about my suffering about like being hungry that makes it very irrational oh yeah like your animal instincts come out and you become very emotional over the fact that you want to eat and you can't so the caveman comes out very very quickly I think it's that they're our normal selves that's not the real us the real us is like a male who was constantly looking for food it doesn't happen so he's constantly angry explains your aggression explains a lot but back in the day we would have been looking for food most of the time it's not like open the fridge and there's like all these options back in a day was like you're constantly hungry like imagine the grind to be able to find something so yeah but back in a day they were cutting weight 24/7 their whole lives right fasting was a normal thing yeah I would say also the other thing that makes people are irritable is fatigue which is what weight cutting also has because not only are you dieting and you're really hungry you have to train and you're exhausted and usually people hard start train like crap and there and they get frustrated because they're not doing as good as they should be because they're tired and energy and it just makes more edible and then someone's making your favorite food and finally yeah Angelica gobball has so many stories about me just just losing my [ __ ] in training just start just angry and screaming and yelling and cursing oh yeah it's like a different version of me for sure yeah it's one of the things you have to like I learned to realize that up towards the end of my career like when you're cutting hard that your performance is not gonna be that good in the gym that's fine you just have you just have to expect it like look I know that once go into competition is gonna kick up to a whole other level I just need to stay alive and make it healthy as I can be to the ring or to the cage or wherever it is yeah I remember actually when I when I was competing in that same tournament nogi was 17 is I had met up with Dante Lyon in the semi-finals which is the first match of day two and I think he did something very similar he cut a lot of weight and then I remember that next morning I ate the biggest baddest breakfast you could possibly imagine I just stuffed myself full food I had about three hours before the match I figured it would digest man but it did it it just sat in my stomach like a brick and I hadn't go out to that match and compete with the just a stomach full of french toast and sausage and eggs I was out there just trying to me donkey we had a really tough match I don't remember if I don't know if you were commentating that year abroad you remember what year was it 2017 I know you did 18 I think I started in my first year would have been 18 maybe yeah I don't yeah I don't think so it was right after yeah this is only a few months after I won ACB ACB was in September and then nogi world was in December anyways I was talking to Dante afterwards and and he basically did the same thing he cut a bunch of weight he ate a bunch of food and and we both suffered equally in that match because we couldn't breathe I usually tell people however bad you're feeling usually you can your opponent feels the same because we're all going through similar trials you know we're all dieting we're all kind of weight we are nervous there's nobody that's like God like and your list or doesn't have injuries right so that's why I always tell people I feel I perform really really well when I don't cut weight if I go up a division I keep myself five pounds under the weight class I'm somewhere in the middle you know what I'm not cutting but everyone else is cutting so I feel amazing and when I start competing with guys to work yeah they're bigger than me but they're not is nourished and I can feel them get tired like I can feel them struggling to dig deep for that energy and I know that because I'm healthy and I'm nourished I can push the pace on them and really kind of grind it down on them and make them suffer until they get tired towards the end and then I win yeah I know a lot of the strategies that I've used in the past were attrition which is I came from my wrestling background I wasn't I was very simple it's like underhooks and single legs and enough about it and I would always win in the round and what you're saying is it rings true no you have a wrestling background - yeah yeah just high school yeah yeah same thing here just high school you know I would always listen to people's breathing and when I start feeling I'm like oh you're in trouble buddy now it's it's making it worse from this point on you know yeah where the secrets I've learned from another wrestler is that he doesn't mind getting tired because if you're fighting at a hard pace you're gonna get tired doesn't matter how well condition you are but that doesn't mean you can't stop fighting anymore you can fight tired - and I know some of the this guy might be jamming we gon Fantasma he is better when he's tired and it doesn't make sense like when he's fresh he's not back he's not as good but when he gets tired his feel he's just super fast you know woman and you're like how did he get better when he's tired and it's because he's able to push the pace on you and he has that same confidence that when you're tired it doesn't matter to him you know so because you I know a lot of people are afraid of getting tired and they conserve energy and then they don't you'll see people coast and then they end up losing a decision or they just squeaked out a win you know but like if you have that confidence in your stuff that you know you can push past fatigue and just keep going it opens up a lot of doors you know I guess most people are not used to going into those deep waters right and if you're trying to coast you're you're grappling with a reactive style right which probably puts you more on defense right because the person I was pushing is the active style of grappling so I think and I've always thought and you can disagree but I've always thought it's better to be the active grappler right as opposed to the reactive grappler I know some people have phenomenal counter grappling skills some of them do some people in in boxers and MMA fighters also there's someone they built their whole career on begin counter strikers but I think I'm grappling I've always believed it's better to be there when one thing is going on - like we're talking about this the push in knowing that by the time we're both tired it is a matter of the will I at that point cuz I know like I have always had in my head when the guy is breathing hard like one back were you guys talking about I always felt that okay I'm gonna be exhausted too but I know that I won't quit I don't know if you're gonna quit or not but I know that I won't right I'm so having that confidence that at the end of the day if we both break that's favours me because I know that I'm not gonna stop right well I know I think most people they when they get uncomfortable something happens in their head and I think was Dan cable that said that cardio makes a coward of us call it cowards of us all I think them it's it's not true because it's easy to be brave you know and aggressive when you're fresh it's a course different story when you're broken you have nothing any like how can you keep your hands up right you guys hear that banging is that me that's someone text me I don't know how to turn it on Barty unquote so I'll go back to Turkmenistan right so so with the Peace Corps what they do is they they offer you countries and you can accept or decline so you don't get the picker country but they're gonna send you options and you can say yes or no so the first option they sent me was Turkmenistan and I was like and I told my recruiter I was like I want to go somewhere nuts I wanna see something I wanna see some [ __ ] okay and he's like I got the place for you bet you my it was the most bonkers [ __ ] country I've ever been to and I've been to a lot of countries man it's basically like North Korea like everything about it is North Korea except they don't have nuclear weapons or ambition to destroy the Western world but okay crazy dictator president who will kill you if you oppose him he'll put you in prison he'll put your family in prison you know they're super poor but they don't have a lack of resources either they have a [ __ ] ton of natural gas North Korea doesn't really have very many natural resources not that I know of I don't know expert on North Korea but Turkmen has like the fourth or fifth largest natural gas reserves in the world the president just keeps all of it so the people have nothing they're dirt [ __ ] poor so yeah so I go to this country in it and it's so funny because they actually ended up putting me in a village that has a wrestling culture like a Turkmen wrestling culture because they knew I told them that I was a grappler and a wrestler and they put me in this very specific village and once a year this village would host a grappling tournament oh wow and they would they would they would itch out this big square in the dirt like a massive square like like half of a football field and all these Turkmen grapplers would go out there and they would put on the kimono top they had kimono tops they would tie some stupid rope around their waist or belt or whatever they had it kind of samba but they would wear shorts right shorts and no shoes and then what you'd have to do is you stand chest to chest on each other like starting chest to chest you put your arm behind the guy you slide your hand under the belt and wrap it around and then grab the belt and he throws that to you also so you're locked into each other with your hands inside the belt it's completely locked and basically they say go and the first person to pick the other guy up and dump them wins that's how the helmet but this is like like Turkish wrestling right like oil and they put the hands inside the pants yeah right it sounds similar to me yeah it kind of what they have that didn't know oil it's just a kimono top in short a plane in general and that in Central Asia is huge yeah realize like how like people think all the Russians and the Chechens and the Dagestan they're all good at wrestling but like no sir by Janet Georgia my socks cause cos øx like all that whole region they're so good not just their talk uh uh freestyle wrestling in greco-roman wrestling judo [ __ ] that's why I have always said once ejj catches on in Central Asia those guys are gonna take it over yeah they don't I mean it's to have a huge foundation that tons of talent but it hasn't really gotten there yet they have like only a black belt each and they are now where the US was like 2025 years ago I feel like but I think that in 20 years we're gonna have a lot of like some of the best scrappers in the world coming from Central Asia man how did you do that did you do wrestle on that annual tournament no no I want to do place let me explain to you my process I know I think if I bitched out I did because I'm three hours from a major city and that major city didn't even have a good a good Hospital I had a friends who were working in the hospital that were also in the Peace Corps and the hospitals there are not hospitals they're [ __ ] okay it's just like it's like an empty building with a person who calls themself a doctor gotcha and and man these guys were these guys these Turkmen are big okay they're big they're like Central Asians are big they're kind of like they're kind of like Cossacks and Mongols like they just come out of that Mongol that big Mongol head and they're just hefty stocky people I thought I mean I'm eight hours from the capital yep drive eight hours driving on a shitty road to a very dangerous shitty road with full of potholes and drunk Turkmen drivers and I just thought man if I break a bone if I break my collarbone cuz I don't know how to do that I never I had never put Aggie on at that point when I was a blue belt I started off as noogie and fighting MMA so I didn't have any idea how a gear or a belt worked God - it's not if one of these dudes dropped me on my shoulder and I busted my clavicle I would be in a real problem I would have a big problem yeah but the family had lived with they were like Josh go out there and do it you know because if you've won a match you got a chicken they would all right walk out and hand you a live chicken you're like boom I got a chicken [ __ ] yeah I got dinner and I thought man and it's not easy to get me you don't have meat every night you know a lot of times rice and bread and carrots and and the family was like Josh come on go go win us a chicken and I was like man I really want a chicken or a goat you could have a go too if you beat someone big and I just thought [ __ ] man if I could it drops wrong and I break something I'm and I mean tell me that the chicken was not enough of a big enough face that if you're great breaking a bone or something you gotta buy a chicken friend when I was a high school I went to the Jamie Robinson 28 date camp and at the time I was privileged they had brand-new mega metal it's worlds I think he was telling a story that he was in Turkey and in a similar thing but angle they they were doing some like cross-training so they were training with I guess the Turkish team and then they would hold a tournament at the end outside on campus the winner of the tournament would get a goat and uh he had got to the finals I guess it was tournament he was resting and he ended up getting beat by a Turkish guy and you remember the guy who's had some big dude grab the goat over his head he said and as he did that just let me ask you something man I mentioned I mean it's an amazing experience like we can I mean I like to but I like to pick your brain a little bit as far as like your mindset for for fighting in general I think that we all have anyone who is successful in fighting has there's a common thread there's some things that you have in common there's some things that are different now he is similar but it's never identical that's my experience right maybe you disagree I mean I'm you know I'll choke Dave how they feels about it but you were mentioning like the struggles of cutting weight and I think that to me that was the closest thing I've ever felt to death was cutting weight like I needed help people had to lift me off the ground click couldn't stand up on my own right that's how exhausted I was with that being said that was not the hardest thing for there are other things that to me were much more difficult so I was hoping the picture brain like what were some of those things that you has struggled with in the past and still struggle with now in terms of your life as a grandpa as a competitor or as a professional than a fighter well um I used to get super nervous when I first joined autos and I would I would go to competition and I was I would get really nervous because I had undergone all my corner and I didn't want disappoint him you know I was like man I'm here I am representing this really awesome team I had this really awesome coach my corner and I started mind-fucking myself because I thought man if I don't do well I'm gonna let him down I'm gonna let my team down and I think this is a mistake to think this I think it's it's it's boss I don't think Andre would ever feel disappointed you know in me or like you'll upset with me because I didn't perform well and that's I could probably seem to say the same thing you guys have I mean would you ever be disappointed in your student for going out there and competing no absolutely I always tell people that that when it's like we had like a pre competition talk and the thing we say is when you go out there to compete you've already made us proud because most people would never have the courage to do that and yeah at the end of the day you're out there for you you know we're like as a coach I'm there to support you you know it's not the other way around you know I mean some people feel like oh they have to fight a the school banner or whatever like now you're there for you and I'm there to help you make sure you reach your goals great so I would and I know that now of course but yeah I would I would get super nervous about that so then I will start over analyzing really stupid little things like I would say oh man my my PEC muscles pulled I'm not gonna perform well and that would start eating into my confidence you know would start beating me up and I would just quitting weight you know if I was cutting weight I would be stressing out like oh my god I'm five pounds over I'm gonna have to cut at the last minute then I'm gonna be exhausted in the match I'm gonna deplete myself and I'm gonna perform like [ __ ] and so these things these stupid low thoughts would snowball inside my head and I would let them build up to be something really big and caused me a lot of stress and anxiety luckily over the years you know I probably have like 150 black belt matches now and I don't stress over anything anymore like almost virtually not at all I just I I don't cut the weight I don't let the I don't let little things bother me like when I 190 world's in 2018 I was [ __ ] up physically like I had all kinds of things wrong with my body my knee was was [ __ ] up from my match as well a lot oh I popped it really bad I didn't have full range of motion I had pulled the pet muscle here really badly I had my ear was all bloody it was all chewed up because I had a little cut that just kept getting bigger and bigger hmm um I was all messed up and and so then what I did for that tournament is I kind of flipped my mindset at that man I'm a wreck right now I'm a train wreck I was like I probably I'm not gonna win I said I was except I accepted that I'm sorry I'm not gonna win but I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna try I'm gonna try my best and I'm gonna do what I can do and and see what happens ends up being the best one of the best terms of my life you know I've got two submissions out of the four matches and I got a submission of the finals which you saw Rob and yeah it turned out to be one of my best performances out there it doesn't matter that I was injured you know didn't matter that I was messed up or but because I had a good mindset that I could like you know I'm just gonna go out there and fight as hard as I can and whatever happens happens and that's okay if I lose it's okay you know I mean like no big deal I took I took the stress off myself by just understanding that I was so physically beat up that it didn't matter if I lost I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't devalue myself you know in my own mind so I just I kind of relieved myself from this anxiety and then I went out and ended up performing phenomenally I felt great I had a great tournament so you feel it the social pressure was something because I'm talking about the pressure of your teammates in your coach that is like the social pressure right like some for some people's - girlfriend or it's the dad or it's the friends or it's the coach right it's that puter pressure yeah as far as pressure that you put on your stuff has there ever been any any moment where you go you're doubting yourself or you're insecure or you don't think you can do it or ever been like a moment where you felt like that and it changed I want to talk about the experience of Josh as far as what does Josh have to do to turn his mom because like your body can be functioning your technique can be sharp but if something is not right up here everything else falls apart right right right was it that you tune your mind to be so confident it was a it was a long process to be honest it didn't just happen overnight you know and and really what I helped have it for me it helps having Andre gone now in your ear because he's a very positive guy and he would just constantly feed me positive energy always in my ear telling me that I'm great I'm gonna win I'm gonna kill everyone and even even for the ACB tournament I he was telling me he's like Josh you're gonna win he's like that money is yours you're gonna smash those guys and I was looking at the bracket like what like Patrick Gauchos in here like toggle saw um AJ Sousa like really tough guys Arnaldo hey Zaki by-nc yeah like tough guys were in that division I thought man I'll be lucky to get to the semi-finals I'll be the I said I'll be lucky if I get halfway through this division cuz of everyone in that bracket was a monster and he's like no you're gonna win Josh you're gonna win most like man I really kind of I wanted him to stop it was making me uncomfortable and then you saw what happened I went I showed up and I just rapped shop and I post actually posted a picture today of that match because because I was having you robbed and then I thought about that I was looking through my phone I saw the picture I was like ah amazing performance man that was a huge win no I shocked myself I didn't even expect the point is you just never [ __ ] know what you're capable of and I basically what I learned it's like doesn't matter what you think you can do you're you're capable of more like I shocked myself and so then I just thought it that after that tournament I just thought to myself man I you shouldn't listen to yourself in internalized that [ __ ] in your head that tells you like you're nervous or you're scared you might not do well it's just wrong it's wrong it's just your insecurities and I how do you stay in that mindset though cuz that's the best stuff because everyone can feel like that after a win but I think the tendency is for us to go back right like is there a way for you to stay in the clouds and just feel like perfectly confident all the time well once I once I really is that that you know the insecurities that you have in your mind everyone has them course and you even told me one time about your friend who's a UFC champion who would get super nervous and and and anxious before their fights you know it happens to the best of the best of the best everyone is susceptible to it just because some of us don't admit it but it's it's in our minds and something we all deal with it differently but basically just what I convinced myself was like even if I don't think I can and I can I know I can because I did right I just basically look back at the historical data and I think okay look at that one time I had I didn't think I was gonna win there was a bracket of eight monsters and me and I did and I and I won in phenomenal fashion so then I just understood that I understood that no matter what I think of myself I know that I'm capable of doing it because I did it you know I mean I did it so there's no reason to doubt myself you know it may see like I I needed some wins to build confidence and those winds helped me make more wins and then I just understood like okay I'm capable of doing this I know that I'm capable of doing this because I've done it before so it doesn't matter what I think of myself I can look at the historical data and see oh I did it I can do it so it doesn't matter if I doubt myself right now because I'm capable so by work this the past you feel that you know you can actually maintain yourself so you curve because that's a really good way of looking it like exactly like you say like I know that I could do this cuz I have done it in the past and that's factual right isn't that what scientist does right let's do that they look at historical data to predict the future that's science yeah I've seen two things there also because initially you had like you said about doubt and whatnot like everybody does but that when you we talking about the worlds in particular you've said you had essentially given up on the idea of winning and instead you were just gonna focus on doing your best I think that is a key factor because that's something I always tell all my guys that because competition is really about stress management right because we all know guys are monsters in the gym then they go into a tournament and then they do poorly are they or they don't live up to their expectation and it as they don't know how to handle the stress of competition because there's a lot of mitigating factors and pretty much all the unknowns right you don't know what your opponent is or what he's gonna do you're you're not familiar with the venue the sounds the people the crowds you know so all these things create stress and what the unknown and all these things that you can't control get you riled up and when you're stressed your muscles are actually tensing and sapping your energy without you yeah your breathing's getting labored or it's just like your short breaths how shallow breathing right but cop the one thing that you can't control is actually winning or losing you know and you'll control it indirectly by doing the best you can but you don't decide the match is one that's done by a judge or a referee because you could wreck somebody and then still get job you know and they give it to the other guy all right and then and then they go how do you what'd you do about that right so when you make the goal do your best nobody can take that away from you that's Tony on you right so it it is very empowering you know because allows you it doesn't matter who you're going up against because if I give you the if I give a wipe out the goal I won't want you to be Hicks and Gracie and your first tournament ever it's a very unrealistic expectation and he's gonna have all those doubts swimming in his head saying this is impossible and you probably get crushed but if I had told them just do your best well oh I can do that right I mean I'm not gonna win but I mean I can at least do the best and as a coach that's all I can ask for an athlete it's something that's in your ability yes no matter no matter who you're facing you always have the ability to give your best yes and some people think oh that's easy no it isn't easy think you're doing your best requires you first to prepare to the best of your ability which is not easy that's the most difficult part probably right and then also just giving you wrong now willing to lay on your shield list and you had to in the actual match itself but the second thing you touched on also was experience right and everybody knows like our experience is very important and it's because like you said it's like actually right you can look back and goes dude I'd wonder well chairmanships of course I'm one of the best GoPro but of course I can beat anybody out there on any given day and that's why things I like we talked about this a little bit along the last podcast my brother well that's one of the values I give visualization again we'll go back into it because if you have a good visualization I always say it's like we creating a memory or like implanting of false memory is you don't always have to go out there and get an experience firsthand you can sometimes simulate it and if you simulate an experience enough it starts to become real never like it's never like the real thing it's as close as you can get and you don't get injured so it is one way so like all of us right now kind of quarantine this is it's a good time to stop visualizing you know if you can't change that imagining your next matter to be what I am and really put into work and you know with that on that is I do a lot of visualization while I'm training in the training room so even if I'm just have you know I'm just training with one of my friends or even one of my students like one of the one of the blue belts or something I will visualize myself in the pyramid you know with with an idea for every standing over me you know I imagine the clocks on the wall and I and I keep track of the score in my mind and I just try to put myself in this situation of the tournament what would I do I will even visualize that my training partner is Murillo Santana you know I'll visualize that it's Mateus Denise I will put this my opponents minorities people that I come across all the time I'll put that image on my blue belt training partner pearl belt or whoever it is you know could be my friend but I will pretend that there's someone else and I will put myself and that's in match and I'll close my eyes sometimes and I'll train and I'll just imagine that I'm in a competition and I'm giving it my best effort I'm not trying to give them any slack I'm trying to crush their soul and I will literally yeah visualize myself in the training room as it fits the World Championships excellent and that's a powerful skill to use so most people don't utilize I know Rob dust it all the time in his class he'll tell people okay this is the last two minutes at the moon gallows and the finals go yeah unfortunately you'll see a lot of people they just said that whatever it's the same round right that's unfortunate but the people who get it they understand oh I gotta turn this thing up as hard as I can I feel a lot of people underestimate that you know when someone gives you a simulation to play play it out you know don't half-ass it that's the worst that you can do for yourself think about is role play right like you have to really incorporate the character like they was like we talking my while ago about the mental morphism right so he's taking a shot and he imagines he's a bullet like you have to be able to roleplay you imagine you're a tank passing a half guard you know you're a tank just like going running over your opponent you know and I I think that these like these mental exercises right the one you're describing I imagine you're going against an opponent that you have to be that's fundamental man because it puts you in the state of mind that you will be in when you fight and you need to practice that you need to practice not just a technique though I'm gonna be in as deep half guard you have to practice your mind being in the right place to defeat that position it's not just technical and that's what it's the marriage between the mental that move the will right a desire to win and your and your reactions to your opponents reactions and the technique it's not just the technique and I think that's probably one of the most important lessons for people to understand that you two people don't get it because it's mental and you can't visualize it it's very difficult to conceptualize we can talk about it but it's not something you can have a class on you can just return it right and that's what makes it so hard for people to grasp is that they don't even know what you're talking about unless they have experienced it themselves you know like when you're training you ever had like a really hard training session in like in a training room and like someone's passing your guard like super hard and they're just about to pass through and you're like you're you're kind of processing what's happening you're struggling and you think to myself like oh my god I want to quit like or maybe they almost have a submission you're just holding on by this much you know I'm there your arm is stretched out or like the triangles closing in and your visions you're just like a break away from quitting you know if you quit in the training room you're gonna quit in the competition Zack you're gonna so you have to use those those moments of struggle in the training room when when your teammate or your coach or whoever is is just right on the verge of smashing or finishing you you have to really dig deep in those moments in the training room even though it doesn't matter it's training you're in the training room doesn't matter but if you if you practice stubbornness and and in perseverance in the training room it's gonna be much much much easier when you're in the competition and you have the adrenaline pump with you so and it's just just going off what you said is you have to practice win and I say that a lot of practice and my winning habit not quitting is a habit yeah you know everything you do or have it's not just the technique like if you like I'll push it harder when I compete I'm not gonna quit when I compete it's just difference the gym you know doesn't really matter like no you are reinforcing a habit because once you're exhausted right your brain goes into autopilot and autopilot tells you to quit because that's what you've programmed local months right right I just had a thought to you know when they say like if if you they stay the referee gave two points so the referee gave three points I always tell people no the referee didn't give the points you gave the points you gave the points once you accepted the position if someone took you down and you stand you sat down there and you you accepted it you closed your garden I'm like okay I'm on the bottom you gave them two points the referee just did the signal yeah you know it's like one of those things maybe a guard passes easier is a better example because when someone passes the guard in order to get the three points the passer has to stabilize the position if the person on bottom just does not quit bucking if you're just bridging and blocking and bridging and bucking and bridging and bucking endlessly let's pretend that you never get tired okay you just have endless car you're the Rotolo boys you never get tired okay and you just go forever you just keep bucking and and the guy can never stabilize the position he'll never get the three points you have to stop bucking you have to stop fighting and you have to accept the position on bottom then the guy gets three and the referee didn't give it to him you gave it to him when you stopped fighting right so imagine if you had endless cardio and you could never you never got tired and no matter how good the person was maybe it takes in maybe it's Mara gali or whoever you know whoever it is that's on top of you smashing you if you never quit fighting and bucking and turning and rolling and flipping your hips they would never get points on you what we're humans and we have to we have to do we have to do a cost-benefit analysis in our brain really quick when we're in a bad spot how much do I want to buck before I'm exhausted because as we know once you're exhausted you're [ __ ] you're dead you're not gonna have any fight left so that's why people have to kind of make decisions in the match okay the guy's passing my garlic how much do I want a buck before I'm completely exhausted and then I have no fight left he's gonna submit me but I've always just explained to people it's not at the referee given the points it's you and I think one of the things that I learned especially from Andre is that you can never accept bad positions if you accept the bad position it even in training you're going to be likely to accept a bad position in the match so in training I try to never ever accept a bad position I never accept to take them off but we'll fight to stand back up until the bitter bitter end until the guy has to physically hold me down and restrain me completely which is difficult to do you know at least for black dogs it's pretty hard to completely dominate them like a child you know like the way you can dominate a child like it's very difficult to do to a black belt who doesn't want to be held down you like for that to be possible you're talking about the card you like if you have infinite cardio in the party was shit's great like if you could have that superpower right but that by itself is not gonna get you bucking the whole time because that's not what gets you bucking begin with it's the desire to win that's what a lot of times understand the difference it's like you can have all the apprentice ISM in the world if you don't got this little guy right here willpower exactly willpower to tell you I'm not losing maybe some other day lose not today right if you don't have that little voice in the back of your head it's not something can really cook oh man like it's something it's just like sometimes it's on it like no way right and then that right there even if you don't have good cardio I would rather have that then be an amazing shape I feel like because as long as you're willing to fight it's super hard man when they're dead when they're dead but man like you guys should keep going you'd be surprised and how far you can push yourself if it actually mean I'm not gonna stop right I called the reddleman got a red line the heart rate it's like when the match ends and you literally feel like you're gonna die because you can't breathe my biggest peeves is like I just comprised me nuts I think me and dick talked about this before but it goes like this the guy who loses the match right loses and then he has all this energy to argue with the ref complains with his coach you can see him pacing around I'm thinking well you're angry yourself right because you didn't leave it on the mats cuz if you're gonna if you're gonna lose my focus buzz you should be crawling off the mats because if you're walking if you are walking and you're talking you did not do enough it's that I agree hundred snake Keenan says that all the time actually he said man he's like you need to walk off that mat [ __ ] exhaustion yeah like you said crawling off the mat like you shouldn't even be able to talk it and I even say this in the training room Rob I say this women training him all the time between rounds if I have a hard round and I go to my corner I don't talk to people when I'm in training I'm like I'm a robot okay I just show up and I work hard I don't talk to anyone when someone comes and talks to me between the rounds I look at them like what the [ __ ] is wrong with you why can you talk right now if you can talk to me you're not training hard enough you should be gasping for air and trying to suck that water down but with the two minutes that we have for a break if you're thinking if you can ask me questions about techniques you're not training and you should probably go home yeah reminds me one of the hardest trains I did was actually in that Jay Robinson came it's just sad because I was in high school it's the truth and they had this day they called the red flag day what the coaches which I've heard of me through they were just pushed you through hell and particularly this one was done after or what was called the white flag day which was a reversal you put the coaches to hell and these people were not snoring yes they really pushed it on the coaches they had a coach have to crawl under the wrestling mat all playthrough and that guy was not happy because I'll tell you haven't you really tough dirty yeah I'm not sure how he did it like he was crawling under two sections on that you know that was rolled out and he had again like a cockroach yeah afterwards he's the one running the training and he gets to do whatever you want somebody didn't think this through so we're wrestling and I remember I was going as hard as possible and they had me going up with a guy who was like the best wrestler in my in my camp and between rounds I was hyperventilating and at the end I was tearing because it couldn't breathe but I was pushing super hard and I remember the they face a training and then they awarded to me the best wrestler of the day and then I was a kind of embarrassed because I was crying because I couldn't breathe okay thanks but in echoes the sentiment that you guys are saying that if you're not putting it all out there then you know you let yourself down you didn't push hard enough and I think the problem is a lot of people they get into especially when you start getting dominated it's easy to go into survival mode right and I think that's a very natural tendency right like people feel at a certain point a beginning beat just survive don't try to win or anything you just don't die and yeah you know so exactly that's not in our sport don't get submitted and you know see people just shell up or they'll do this thing from the bottom of the mount it's like this is not gonna get you out him out I mean you just gonna be stuck there all day right and I've seen I seen a guy I was coaching him and he got taken down and he just closed his guard gripped on the guy's wrist and never let go and he went six minutes and lost the whole time I'm yelling open you got sweet hope and do something that he lost I like with these fellas gonna happen do the coast yeah but it takes some people that that switch to survival goes to too quickly and to me that's a bad tendency to have you know like in a competition there's no no survival mode this just win or lose if you survive you lost you know to go out sorry go ahead yeah so like in what you were saying to more important is doing that in the training room because at least in the training room the consequences aren't that severe I could I know some people especially be doing MMA there's more consequences you can get knocked out or or you know things are no steeper I still feel you should be doing that the same thing but I get it but like you know if you're in a training room there's really no consequence pour it out like you said like just die up in the mats every day because I know that you since what you're describing there you must have that confidence in your training with a tough team you know you got guys under a bow so like if you're you're there and you're emptying it out and you're going to the competition mats chances are nobody's giving you a cup of fights in your head you've already had those gym Wars yeah luckily luckily Andre is really really good about pushing this whole mentality on the entire team so if you don't show up to training with the with a competition mindset ready to fight to win you're gonna it's gonna get smashed because everyone else is fighting to win so if you don't if you don't get yourself on that level it's gonna be just a horrible horrible day for you and to be honest this is my motivation for not drinking alcohol for not eating [ __ ] food I just because I know I was like if I do that I'm gonna get trashed the next clean training I know I'm not gonna stand a champion anyone they're gonna they're gonna murder me so this is I just don't I take care of myself simply because I don't want to get [ __ ] up and training every day yeah yeah I understand what you mean is like you're not fighting you're fighting to not lose that's what they call it yeah exactly yeah there's a sports I call I just said I spoke to once and he should always say that you should always you should always train and fight because you want to win not to not lose I think is like that's the mice you always want to put yourself into going in the gym it's very hard to do that because as much as you love your training partners right you still don't have lucid know what it's a healthy come kind of like Brotherhood and competitiveness it's the freights I just want to win but it's like there is like a preoccupation of go walking in there and going I can't lose to this guy bragging rights for the day yeah exactly and you know it he doesn't have to say anything but you know what he's thinking absolutely absolutely kind of poke fun at each other to it ah so it's like because met everyone's so competitive and and that whoever wins changes every day just because I beat Jonathas Gracie one day or Enola junior one day doesn't mean they're not gonna beat me the next day so every now and then like if we had a good competitive round and I won like maybe on the way out of the gym and when training is over like someone will say something snippy and I'll be like yeah but you know what I submitted you today but I know it's only good for the day you can only brag for the day because tomorrow's a new day and anything can happen tomorrow mental scoreboards I'm telling you right now I got a mental scoreboard at the rock because yeah because you beat me at one time that we chained together and in my mind it's zero to one right now first where that was I remember like like Damian but he was annoying though he would train with him and he like squirt you once on you and like he literally sweep you and look up and go that was two points I think well I'm like [ __ ] you man then I turn into a war yeah he was keep you looking track and I til this day I don't know if he was just like just in case you didn't know of course I know it was a sweep you don't have to remind me I don't what if it was just like I'm like him like making sure that you knew that he knew it wasn't just random you don't like competition going on in his head the beautiful beauty of it though is no matter how competitive it is you can always let go eat really drink a beer but we'd never do that but like have a nice ie with your friends you know you can show it's not personal and I think it takes a certain maturity for you to be able do that now you see that people that don't have the maturity like they will carry that rivalry off the mats and that's very unhealthy yeah you can't do that you know but I guess I think if you keep that health it's my brother's do so well you know David could speak of this like you always say when you they're two brothers and they're close to being the same age and you know they rival II love each other to death and you know that your brother's a person was always gonna have your back but it doesn't not gonna try to kill each other on the mats yeah my brother might was my worst training partner in the sense that even though he was smaller I mean he just he had a good number I mean like wise on him so those roles those MMA matches that we had together were always the toughest ones you said I love my brother it's I wish I had a brother I had it but that's what you would you will never gonna say that with training at the gym I want to ask you one thing I know you're a very good guillotines is there a particularly reason you do an affinity or how do you get that that skill with the guillotine because I say it because I think it's one of the best submissions in the game in that it's very easy to learn the basics of it but there's so many fine details to master that take it way of muddies a lot of people think all guillotines a garbage move once you learn it basic defenses but just like anything else when you know the the fine points i have one of my guys i taught the guillotine as a blue belt and he went to naga tapped out a black belt on the public in like 90 seconds with like a specialized gilding about you learned and he's like a guilty machine so i always loved it so like when i get somebody from a totally different spectrum and your store in the guillotine so when i was a purple belt I was living in Tucson Arizona and I was I was the head instructor of a small beginner level Jiu Jitsu program and a a boxing gym and one of the best training partners I had there was a guy named Bo Triple A and he's from Arizona and he was a high school wrestler and he's about super heavyweight I would imagine and he had a badass low single takedown and he could shoot it from my eight feet away but he's so big you know he could see so far away I'm not even touching him if he had dropped down all with the mat and just rah dive into my ankle and lock it up you know you know the low single when you're right on up that's where your elbow is touching the mat and he would shoot this takedown on me every single day and then when he got on top of me it was a night because he's big and strong and um so he would just keep shooting those I mean all I could do is I would drop to my butt put my chest over the back of his head and scoop up his chin and just hold on because I can make him back up if I did that so instead of like accepting the takedown I would counter with this guillotine chin strap grip and it would make him back up and then I could get back to my feet hopefully or at least get to a good position and then what ended up happening is I start I start trying to do the ten finger guillotine to him when I was in that position and then he would start turning and flailing and flopping around so I would just literally just because he's so big I would hold on to him and just kind of roll with him and we just give me these tumbles and and he would spin and roll and and I got really good at just holding on to it for a long time till my forms are smoked and burnt out and and then eventually I would just build on it and I would start attacking him more with it and submitting him with it sometimes and sometimes she'd back away and it just ended up being the best counter that I can I can throw at him whenever he would shoot that single leg and and we basically were the we were training partners for probably three years together and he was the best guy that I had to train with and because it was kind of isolated there in Tucson and Jiu Jitsu politics didn't really allow for cross-training and so we just kind of so basically was him and I were blue and purple belts and everyone else was a white belt so we just beat the [ __ ] out of each other every day for three years and into this day he's still one of my best friends and he's lives in Phoenix he's still training and and I always credit him with it because he was like the co-creator of my hangar team because because of his little single and I just had to I had to adopt adapt what this reminds me of like I always describe these like these training partners of ours like it's an arms race there's yeah that's how I describe these relationships right like I have to have successful I have to have thousand training partners and there ought to be good otherwise they can't be successful and I was like I need to I need to like maybe three and I can be fine with one because to me what would happen train with the same people over and over that she's an advantage a lot of people like no way no it's gonna be the same stuff all the time but that they never you're going it because that's how you create the arms race I block your guillotine which forces you to better your guillotine which is better defense and so on I'll give you an example I developed the door strain inside Lucas ladies half guard that's where it came from I could not pass his half guard what are you gonna do you can't pass yeah yeah only pay a person person to pass was like a Rodolfo and that was like later and Lucas's life and then like Bengali after that but same thing Lucas was older wasn't the same guy you know but back in the day no one could pass shundi Ribeiro couldn't pass because his half guard right you go we couldn't got to create something that he's wrong King from the fact that I was trained with them every day and we reached a stalemate and I had to think of new ways right so I think that people under value these arm races with training partners and they should look at that there should be reason for joy you should be happy that you have someone that blocks your best move because that should not be a reason to quit and say oh I can't pass this car because of this it should be a reason to go what else can I do that I'm not doing that would you know elevate this game right and you would be doing him a favor by beating him there because that's gonna improve on their game right and like going back to the Brotherhood thing that's exactly what that person as that person is your brother on the mat like I don't have a Marcos Avalon in my life I've never had that like but I've had training partners over the years that I would go to war with every day sometimes four or five rounds because I had no one else to train with and I'd be trained with saying curse I'll give you an example I had one training part of mine Brazil isn't Arleen do net yes to this day the best last Sogard I've ever seen it since he was a blue belt today if he gets her sleeve you cannot pass no one passes right I don't get worried than the last people put me in the last one Philippe he does I think I'm so comfortable there because like I have memories of being in the last those a blue belt for all you know the whole practice and it made me so comfortable made my defense pretty good right so for the record having the same training partner could be you have to turn that into an advantage it's not something bad yeah I think that's a great point you bring out and I know a lot of people not everybody is privileged to be able to train with black belts or let alone like very competitive gyms I mean they think oh I'm at disadvantage but I always bring up the example like look like guys like Fedor what was he training with like nobody knows who he was with he probably the same dudes that he's always training with but it's like you're saying about arms race is so important ok if you just think about it from like a evolutionary standpoint like if you keep facing different enemies I have no idea about your toolset it's really easy to defeat them yeah for sure so you don't get like I notice when I was traveling and I like open mats ok oh it just killed everybody it was like super easy it was very it wasn't very because nobody knew what was going on but when I go to the same place everybody starts doing big tricks I mean start gaining the defenses and then he said now the games beginning where we can actually all right now you know our basic first line of offense now what's line number two and then line number three so yeah you guys I think training with the same people is usually better it's good to have some external influences to show you new ideas alright like because if you're always training the same thing like you won't learn maybe you'll never see somewhere less on guard because nobody trains the last guard and you need that exposure but I think as far as improvements you want to be training with the same core people who know your game because that's gonna force you to evolve it it's like a virus that you don't have an immunity to are you finished podcasts we just you know but I think that was impressive we managed to talk for a whole hour without talking about this [ __ ] training partners that I cannot get you Lukas Barbosa and thus are gonna miss are just has an ability to survive without oxygen or blood he just hangs out in there I don't know he's like an engine and then Lukas Lukas is just such a powerhouse and and he's kind of figured out the way to survive it and give me a hard time but because I have those guys I'm able to really focus on working in the guillotine really really hard if I can get enough I can get seen anybody like when I get in other people it seems so easy I'm like oh this guy gave up so soon like that was he he didn't even fight like my teammates they fight inside the guillotine they've been inside of it so many times they know how to survive inside of it they know how to try to get out of it they know the counters to the counters and but I know that when I put this on someone in a competition they're not even at that level that my teammates are so sometimes people tap so early and I just danira I didn't like laughs didn't even think I had it yet the guy already tapped right I've seen those respect taps I had one of them in one tournament where I just threw the leg reach for the heel hook I didn't even get to the heel yet and the guy that was like my phantom to that don't know how far they can go maybe they've never pushed themselves their limit you know and they give up too easy I don't know yeah I think that's what you were talking about with training that you have to push those limits right yeah but again the thing that we can do in training that we can't really do in competition is that we can push them safely right like I know some people think it josh is getting past a lot of time of training no no but like you know if you have good training partners they know not to overextend and rather give they get you in the armbar like for me I'm this gonna hold it you know locked out you know if I can get you to tap with the slow control no that means I need to get better grips you know a funny story at the American nationals and I forgot what year it is maybe 2017 me and kid had to fight each other and the key and we'd find each other noogie - we fight each other three times that weekend I beat him in the noogie version and then the next day we did G and he beat me and then we went again in the ghee in the open class finals and he had me in a triangle armbar I think and he was stretching but the triangle wasn't there that the angle was wrong but he had my arm completely stretched out and he was pulling on it and I wasn't gonna tap and he got any literally whispered in my ear what he doing arms gonna break and I was like and I literally said to him you won't break it I know and he actually I think I he let me out of it yeah I got not that he let me out but I think he gave up on it or he he wasn't willing to break it and I think it was because he was winning on points and he knew he was gonna win regardless but I literally I couldn't even see him I just we just hear each other and talk you know I was like I said you won't break it that's funny sometimes this is trying to be said about poker facing people I wonder if it'd have broken it if he was losing bet points though or maybe like one pop you know Knight just just a little not a complete anihilation you know just a little this little pop find person he's a kind person ya know he is well we had this we had a on our podcast we were - you said he asked me if because we were gonna face each other a DCCC potentially right because we're in the same division he ended up not competing because there that ekc higher virus but he said hey if we're in the finals and I had a triangle locked up on you and you stood up right above air knowing that you can slam legally and that my neck would break and I'd be paralyzed but you'd be a DCC champion would you do it if it's me yeah you're great you job was a person a friend not a friend right yeah your friend yeah he see it was between me and him he said he said Josh if I had triangle locked up on you okay and you can pick me up over your head and slam me on my neck and break my neck and I'll be paralyzed but you get to be a TCC champion and you have to do this because you're losing on points would you do it I said yeah you have the choice of letting go exactly it's true yeah well that's Romania ie some people think oh it's a sport it's a game I've never seen competition that way I've always framed that it's life or death and I define that with people like the difference between what I call an athlete and a warrior right we're athletes playing a game and warriors playing with life or death right so I've always competed like I've and I've been choked unconscious and matches I've let my limbs get broken and [ __ ] like I'm going out there everything so like if it was someone like you're gonna put my brother I won't and compete with my so the match started one of us will win it with a coin toss that'll be it cuz I get it I know there's some people don't like that I'm like you don't understand the stakes that I'm playing at right there like so like we don't win this they injure your brother yeah so I wouldn't compete with my brother in a grappling match eternity in that scenario in the training room yeah a replica house but I'm obviously not gonna paralyze we do close outs too commonly with autos and I know a lot of people have a hard time with it but that's a good way to think about it like do I want to break my friends arm and am I willing to do that if it comes to that situation because it could very well come down to that it could come down to the last few seconds and maybe the scores even and maybe you have an armbar and he's not gonna tap and you have the option of breaking it would you break it but that wouldn't even win you the match just because you brakes on its arm doesn't necessarily make you the winner either like competing with friends for that very reason cuz I would like you greatly I don't like to compete with those I was just friendly just go at it like I never I've done in the past but I don't like I've never liked the fight friends because I know that if it comes down to be hurting you to win you know I don't want to cuz I like it's easy to her I feel like it sounds messed up but it's true like it's to where someone do you care for but I I wouldn't even hesitate to I mean like paraplegic I think that's dip like there's like there's a limit you know but if I had to blow your ankle to win a fight I wouldn't even think twice yeah right yeah horrible you know but it's it just means that much to fight or to win and maybe that's something that a lot of the spectators don't consider when they're talking [ __ ] online yeah yeah I mean the paralyzation is an extreme but even in just a minor woman like you said like you bust an arm or bust an ankle and now these guys are professional athletes what they're gonna do for a living now or they're off for months you know you got knee surgery you were off for a long time you know so like the consequences for us in the combat sports are very severe we're not playing like tennis you know I couldn't imagine seeing like like me Lucas ever had a match together and like one of us broke the other person's arm and then for the next two months you got to see each other but one of you is wearing a [ __ ] spring dude I'm having so much fun with this but I my phone is blowing up I gotta go I'm already late eating here you know what we can do it again anytime we want I'm sure that uh you know you guys will have the time it looks like we're on lockdown for I mean they're saying another month I'm not that optimistic I think this is gonna go through the summer and but it is what it is guys let's try to stay positive try to stay healthy try to stay happy and you know try to learn and grow from this I think that's you got it we'd have to turn this into something positive somehow yeah for sure but uh Josh speaking on behalf of breaking the guard podcast thank you so much your friend on a personal I am great admirer of yours you're one of the great guys in jiu-jitsu and man we're happy to have you on and we'll do this again at some point hey I want you guys to make sure you continue working on those beards too don't let it don't don't give up on them thinking about like really consuming shaving I support that but let this go it's either that but I can't deal with this right here it's got to be it's one or the other I would love one one less thing Josh anything you want to plug or where can people find you online yeah yeah you ask they can give me a follow on Instagram it's a hangar BJJ you can follow my my podcast it's called the mat burn podcast it's also on Instagram the map burn podcast if you wanna check out our online store we have a Shopify store mat burn podcast Shopify store shout out the Tommy fight where my Magee sponsor you can you can use a promo code hanger BJJ to get or no hanger 15 for a 15% off on the website and I want to give a shout out to grapplers guide because those guys are super cool it's an online database you familiar with grapples good no it's all my database and his Basie sells lifetime memberships for a hundred bucks and but what he's doing right now is his name is Jason school he's on the East Coast he's donating 40 percent of all the profits to all of his membership sales to struggling jiu-jitsu academies who are having a hard time keeping the doors open right now hey yeah yeah hey talk to the man because yeah he's any any jiu-jitsu Academy that's struggling to pay their bills right now he's donating 40% of all his profits to them to help them so if if anyone listening is Havok has a struggling jiu-jitsu Academy and they're having a hard time paying the bills while we're all locked down hit up the graboids guide and talk to Jason Scully and maybe he can help him out great stuff alright again a pleasure speaking with you Josh best of luck signing off here from breaking the guard they carry buddy alright see you guys next time thank you peace [Music]