BTG 34 - Andre Galvao

[Music] hey guys what's going on stay with Avalon here with my co-host Robert Drysdale for the breaking Megara podcast and today we have a very special guest multiple time if you see well champion IBF world champion just an all-around living legend in jiu-jitsu Andre kowtow thank you I'm for joining how are you I'm doing great and thank you so much for having me it's a pleasure thank you I'm sorry Rob I'm just gonna start off with one topical news island because I just saw the Vinny Michael s with Craig Jones and holy crap spoiler alert for anybody to see that Craig Jones won by injury default I guess but I don't know if you got to see that but man many these foot was turned completely 180 that's totally nuts what did you think about that Andre man I knew like vini it's really flexible I knew it I knew that he would resist the you hooks it surprised me that he got injured because I saw him before the in those situations he's always like did really Wow but Craig like Craig data such a great job in a way of like snapping you know they did the hue look you know it was like vini like didn't tap right but he's like he got hurt you know like I don't know if it does here like Jerry's ligaments probably right brother well from what I saw it looks like he got an ankle dislocation which is probably a better thing cuz his knee wasn't really affected and he said so like I saw he posted afterwards he says he is fine he didn't pop his knee at all he said it's ankle popped and that's I guess the Craig stopped for a moment cuz he heard it and I guess he broke a bone in his ankle ooh wow he's so flexible man numbly you know what it is it's a testament to Craig's power too because I've trained within you have fought him off your before you can't move his foot it's like trying to move like a metal pole like you can't move it it just to that the ligament is too strong like the foot joint is just to power you can't move it at all I think Craig must have been applying a ridiculous amount of pressure to do that so any other human half the pressure would have done the job but Vinny is exceptionally strong there so it's yeah it's it's I think Craig's the hook so I really at a different level man there's that's all I can say but Vinny he is a really really flexible on the joints like remember when Sabri severe Dylan got an armbar okay see and Fabrice is huge it's really tall so he have a such a great leverage but vini like wasn't the arm like straight like this and he was there like for like a minute I don't know maybe more longer and he didn't tap so he has a crazy crazy joint you know flexibility yeah you can't really attack his joints but it's kind of like a waste of energy yeah you can't I've Craig he's the first guy I've ever seen actually win by not by submission like you guys were talking about by you know injury from injury in his joint but like that's unheard of with any yeah it is pretty remarkable i I remember watching it I was like Jesus Christ I've had pounds with knees they see the foot through the mother Oh God yeah it was crazy well not even once it was two times because he escaped one of them and then I got it again and turned it well they both like a small clip on Instagram and my wife like she she saw the picture of the video you know she's like oh she's like watch it watch it broke like I don't want to watch it she gave the phone to me like and I was watching for her she was like wow yeah but uh under it like you know this is a question you've answered a million times but like I haven't heard it from you how are you guys dealing with all this man like you have a team around the world and I'm sorry you're tired let me answer this question but I do you have a strategies dad we don't know like that's my question give me give me some strategies that ideas yeah definitely like you got as a surprised everyone right we have a lot of filetes and we have a lot of members worldwide and these are going that has like a big gym right some people they have like smaller gyms but until now like everyone is being supporting the teams do you know we'd be like supported them as well thankfully we have the online platform so we provided the training there I said like a cold to all the affiliates so where they can go even like the these students for all the affiliates where they can they can still like learning jiu-jitsu from there but we know it's not easy like it's not the same like going to the gym and sweat and you know and and have fun with your friends but it would be like we're communicating a lot like via emails you know until now we didn't have like people that like call us you know about it you know so we gave suggestions you know the things that's they supposed to do and each place is different you know each place is different like California is not it's not the same as Washington DC it's not the same as in Japan it's not the same in Australia so everywhere is different you know so if I tell people to do what I'm doing here you know it's maybe it's not gonna work where they are you know so we just like needs to to be smart and that we gave like tips you know in a way of like communicating the students and I we you know we're here front of HQ we provide to all the students from all the associational affiliates the online platform so that way we help those who owns the gym affiliate yeah and this is feel like all you know we are getting something you know so it's it's it's what we did here yeah we did the same thing I've been doing the same thing but like you know I always joke around like the students are stuck doing the two things I hate the most warm-ups and positions that's that's what we get to do now so it's got to be really in love with jiu-jitsu to continue training one you can't get to you know we like that we like to try to kill each other that's the fun part you know and we're missing out on that you know you imagine how this would have gone down before the internet for like before anything right before before even like measure like pocket that would be rich right now he's the only one we would be only person with content was pockets off back in the days you only he had every single tournament he was yeah below times ten yeah yeah but up under it like let me uh you know we were just thinking I mean sure they was thinking the same thing it's easy to come up with questions for you because you've had a very extensive career you know okie noogie and the may as a coach you got one of the biggest teams teams in the world and we can talk about you know so many of your accomplishments but I feel like you know maybe they've wants to ask a thing or two about your accomplishments but what I really wanted to get into man is you know really what is your mindset throughout your career because one thing I've always noticed about you and I've always I've never had that I wish I had that you really really love to compete you know to me competition was always like an uphill battle like I had to force myself on the mats but it was not it would never came easy it was always like man this is so hard from you're emotionally Reika getting too nervous or as you like you really like to compete I think that is one of the key ingredients for your success it's not your talent of course but also your your your your love your passion for being tested yeah definitely uh you know I I always love to compete as the same as I love training you know I love to Train and I think that's that's why I love to Train so much because I love to compete to I think it's a combination you know and I put those two pieces together you know and you know we train a lot together me and Robert we become good friends and on the mat we used to roll every day really hard and I was there every day training training training in and I just did that because the love that I have for what I for what I do you know jiu-jitsu is definitely my passion it's what I love most I believe like this we taught you so I don't know what I could do I was like thinking like man like if I need to go and do something else I know I can do something else right but I don't know if I can do it the same passion you know so I know I can succeed the other things too if I work hard but I don't know if I would do in the same way as I did in just because it's something that I really like and I really love it and when I was going for a tournament I was already expecting the feeling of winning the tournament you know I never focused in the feeling of losing the tournament you know I was I was like going to a tournament with the feeling like man like this is one match that I will do that I'll have that feeling of winning if I win this match so I was like putting that feeling before I started matching then I was like Oh Eddie happy you know super motivated I never was a warrior but like oh I can do this I can today all maybe I'll lose maybe not you know I was like so prepared all the time that I was always happy you know and when I had like someone tough in my bracket like when I was Bluebell purple bells you know I was I was happy because after I feed that guy that was really tough in the bracket I knew that my coach would be proud I knew that my friends would be proud too of me you know I knew all that and of course the other way around happened to you know the time that I was there and then I couldn't do really well and I end up losing you know but of course like nobody likes to lose we didn't born to lose right every time you go to do something you you have the positive mentality but I like love so much the pleasure of winning way more than the pleasure of losing because there's no pleasure of losing so I was always with this mindset like man I'm so happy and I remember like that feeling when is step on the first place of tournament man it's amazing you know you know you feel like really good and it was any tournament Robert knows like I just compete like every weekend in Brazil every single weekend from my wild days until my third year of Blackwelder to 2008 it was my my last words of world's before I do anime so throwing all that time from 1999 1998 until 2008 I was there like every weekend like I was trying to find a place you know a tournament to fight you know because man I I had such a joy and then the friends that I made after the fights know the lessons that I learned after the fight you and I was a garland oh I always like to test myself and I remember like I joined tournaments where where I used to I was a blue belt and I was competing against black belts nogi you know and I always like to test myself and sometimes of course like I lost right but right away I was like trying to fix my mistakes you know so I always have that pleasure of like winning of course but training hard to become good but I think the key is like they joy that the training and the competition gave me you know so I think I never been like negative I believe that's my strength I always look towards it the bright side of everything every time that was fine it's like you're very your rewards-based right because most people they say they're very if you they had to choose between a positive outcome or avoiding a negative outcome they'd rather avoid a negative outcome right there risk-averse so this makes them less likely to get big goals but they're less likely also to fail big whereas everything you're saying is kind of what you would expect for someone as a high achiever they yours your goals your reward based you're going out for the big trophy you're going out you're not afraid of taking a risk and failing anything that's something that everybody can can definitely learn from because I think most people when they're going to a grappling tournament the fear is is what's driving a big ol I don't want to lose I don't want to upset my team I don't want to make coach feel bad and that puts all the pressure all right like if you strip that away and you're just focusing on winning and the joy and that's great that you mention that too because you're you're tying the emotion you're saying that you you you anchor yourself to the feeling of winning yeah which I think it's a very strong mental like imprint you know versus just all I want to win a trophy like no you're like encapsulating the feeling of what it's like to be the champion and to be standing on the podium it just makes the makes the goal stronger so you know no we we interviewed a few people where they talked about how they are scared of training and or they're scared of competition and all that but it's good seeing if on the other point because obviously you're like a natural-born competitor you enjoy stepping in and trying yourself so I think those people can do it listening to what you're saying as far as like just enjoying the competition like I know myself like I finally kind of identify with you I've always liked competing I started with wrestling and in wrestling you compete like every other day so you get used to competing and you enjoy it and even the matches you lose sometimes if it's a good battle I'm happy with that you know like if I get to scrap with somebody and we go back and forth there's no shame in that and I rob I know Rob you're you're on the other side of this right here you're you know to me it was it was it was an effort in the sense where I told myself I had to you know but like the pressure and the punishment in my own head if I lost was so severe with me it wasn't even though other people gonna think of you I don't really don't care it was a kind of like punishment I would inflict on myself if I didn't perform to my own standards and rhyolite you have a standard you set for yourself and if you're below that your motto is always really hard on myself so my question under it was gonna be was this something that came naturally to you did where you ever because I remember we met when you were a blue belt remember yeah like we were both really young and like way back in the day and but I remember like give the time or you know we start training with today I would bump into you in every single tournament and during that period you were very active right that's the beginning of your career I've Lou purple you were every much every competition you were there how natural was this to you is this would you say this is part of your your larger personality or is one of those things that you had to shape over time I talked about that journey of becoming how you are because I'm sure that a lot of people struggle with that as well yeah you know I was like training so much I was like so happy like learning jiu-jitsu that I was like trying to test myself all the time and you mention one thing that I started thinking right now it was like you you are when you go to a tournament like you have a 50% of chance to win or lose right it's like 50/50 you never know what can happen and that's why you have that excitement inside you like that like the butterfly is right you just like feel that and I felt that too you know even though I was super motivated looking towards like the bright side I still have that feeling because you're just like you know like you don't want to get hurt like you don't want to get surprised right but once you start controlling everything everything's that chronic started getting normal to you and and I remember like when let's say every time that I lost I never I never stopped training like a lot of people they lose and they just feel like oh you know I think right now just take a vacation I just gotta like be away from the band's they had time to relax I need to rest like I always like I remember when I fought my first sermon as a black belt I fought here at Pan but my first years of black have like two three months of black dough and I father work up the one that he won you beat Margarida right they 181 Robert one del in 2005 was my first year as a black though I lost by by rap decision to go to campus right man this same night I went to the gym I had the key of the gym I opened up the gym and I was there like training and drilling you know like doing like 2-3 hours I was training rolling with work with my my girlfriend was my wife and some guys I was in the gym and and they like man I was I was pissed but I was motivated you know and then they week after I went to worlds and then I won all fives via submission you know so I always like felt that like super super motivated like winning or lose like both ways I motivate me right but like I feel like a lot of people they think that you know they put so much pressure on them you know that they feel like they're obligated to to to win and I thing that I feel that motivates me Robert I don't know if I'm answer your question or not but I'm just adding things here well is I remember when I used to go by myself to fight and everyone in the van it was cheering for the guy from the local guy and I was the guy from the outside man then motivates me so much I love to fly like that I love to fly like I love like they're like cheering cheering cheering and they like you sweep the guy and finish him and everybody's quiet I love this if they're like man it's amazing and I everybody did that so many times so much that's why when when I go to fight for example super fight and then people put a lot of a lot of all the beliefs and all the credit and that guy and not on me these motivate you so much you know to go out there and just make everyone be quiet it's just like what you know so I always have that feeling so and I think like it's all your mind says our ball is like the perspective but the way you see things like for example like I know that there there are people like they're freaking out at this moment right now force right they don't know what to do like what's a hack like you know but if you only see the the bad side of course you gotta see the bad side sometimes right so you can make the right steps but if you just look at that side it's it's you you be froze it you can't move so you gotta have that hope so I always see the bright side I always keep motivated because I don't really know if things would get worse or if you get better so if I prefer to see the bright side where I don't feel like okay so I'll pass through these are so many things in my life I think like this is will be one more thing that you know if things goes like wrong in that way that let's say let's say worst case scenario we need like to close the gym to judge there's no more in the world you know I'll find a way to do something you know how I'll find a way you know so what I can do I just gotta move right so that's how I think Robert Illinois if I ask you a question I think that you you you do have whether you realize it or not you have like a very very positive outlook on things and I think that's the that's fundamental because you know I became more and more aware of this as I've gotten older like I think when I was younger less aware but like now I see the importance of visualize tasting victory you have to taste it yeah that's you know even before you step on the mats and it's hard to explain to people I know you're talking about I've had performances when I step on the mats I'm like I'm not losing today I just feel it I know it right I know it in my heart it's my day to win and there are days I walk in there like I don't want to be here you know yeah trick is like how do you get your mind and to always wanting to be there and a feeling that the excitement of victory it's like right ahead of you version there's a longing like the negativity to take over and I think that's a very unique talent that not everyone has that you can all develop it over time we can improve on it but I think it's it's it's it's probably one of the key factors for success in anything you do yeah I think so I I guess to follow up with that are Andre do you have any rituals or whatnot that you do to whenever you go to compete because I find that what Robert is saying is true is like getting into my you know as they called the zone so to speak is a key to being performing at your top level because when you're in your zone I've been in that state a few times and it's like you're unstoppable at that point like you're the best you're ever gonna be so and on golf they tell them you know they get the perfect swing you have to always you have to capture that mindset when you hit that perfect swing they always get into it every time you swing yeah so there's always a trick and usually there's rituals of what not that people do so I'm just curious if there's anything that you always do every time you compete and perform well sure yes uh throughout my career like with the experience I prove that I think like I I I think I got better on that right cuz I remember when I was younger right now like when I was like a white belt competing a blue belt so I remember like I was nervous you know but then like I start like doing a lot of burpees like slap my face and like read hard and it was like ah like trying to like make the nervous go away no but truly you can't make that nervous go away just not you just need to warm up really well and I remember like the first fight is like it's like the fight that you kind of like warm up not only your body or lungs but also your room up your your nerves you know like you you like after you pass a you kinda like feel like okay so now let's go you know the first ways is like the the fight that you just like oh my god you know so but like my ritual is a I try to be surround of good people like you know my family thankfully I I I'm with my wife since 2004 she always like with me all the time helped me but before that I have my my mom my dad you know my my brothers and also like when I used to go to Kentucky although I should say we did it a and friends you know and you know like I just like to I always sleep well before the tournament you know so a lot of people think they can't sleep and all that I always sleep really well because I was happy that I knew like next day was the day off like doing my best to show my work right to the world I like to eat well like if I need to Kuwait of course a petition what I eat but if I don't I just eat a nice pasta you know or or carbs in the morning and then like don't I don't take like any lunch let's say profly it's like afternoon I don't eat like just have like a like a plate you know like it food like rice and everything in the morning but no meats I don't take me eat I take like more like fish or like nuts you know and then of course I watch i watch fights before I used to watch fights of people that I that I was looking up to you know nowadays I watch my fights and I watch like great athletes I never focus in my my competitor or the person that I'll compete against like I study my opponents because if you see all my Korea I have good strategies like you know way to to win fights because I know the game of my opponent of course but I do they're like months ahead months before especially if I know but when I when they bracket is released is usually like the week of the tournament that day is the only day that I study every single opponent and then all the other five six days that I have I just focus 100% of myself that's it so I know like their games but I know like I got a focus in my fights and of course I watch other fighters like with a good technique and you know sometimes you know that may be happy with you like you you fighting your training and then you do a move and then you're like dang I just watched this movie I'm here doing that you know so you're not even drool there you just watch it so it happened along with me and I like to watch like motivation or stuff like I like to watch like micro Georgia highlights I like to watch like great athletes like highlights you know where I see them like you talk you talk about golf of course like I watch like Tiger Woods highlights you know like he's a great athlete and and I try to play go to talk about go if I try to play go before I met so hard I was trying to swing I was like think about a Brazilian playing goal you know that's why they make so much money you know but yes that's what I charge good and I try to go to movie theaters eat a good popcorn if I don't need to go away - no I just like to enjoy because the day before like or the day off is the easiest part you know it's the easiest the week off the tournaments it's the easiest one you already did everything that you're supposed to do you know I like to train in the week of the fight I like to close my eyes and train with my eyes shut you know just to feel like have a lot of feeling feeling not worry about too much the things that I see and of course I pumping up like myself with good music you know so I always like I always like try to enjoy and put myself in a put in my mindset and my mind my heart you know way that I have so much joy you know like that that feeling of victory you know so I always done that and it works many well that's great you know I I wasn't expecting all that that's pretty amazing and it just goes to your point that essentially you trying to be happy all the time yeah it seems like common sense now think about it yeah if you're happy you're probably gonna be doing better and feeling better and yeah I tell just my students and I say guys like no one can stop a happy person you know like if you're so happy you have so much joy you so positive right like if you're if you're like happy you're positive right like all day what do you when you were really sad when you don't know like then you can start like oh you know I don't know like but when you're happy nothing can stop you you know nothing can stop you and I always try to put myself on that's that's like scenario you know where because the mind is tricky you know like the mind lies to you a lot and I learned that since the beginning you know and it times I I kinda like rebuke bad thoughts you know because sometimes you're there and then and then like I remember like sometimes you're fine then you you you imagine that guy like keeping a guillotine on you you just like shut up you know this is why you know this is doesn't exist like let's go and then you change right away you change you set off you like except in the guillotine is you like getting the guillotine but you already like taking down cart wheel and passing the guard and I mean like you always like doing something like you prepare yourself for the worst as well because think is not gonna be so easy all the time I visualize myself a lot as well like in a good spots of the fight imagine my on gun race but also I imagine myself escaping from like bad submissions and like getting out not giving up you know I keep fighting to the end and just doing that before it terminates sometimes if you have the adrenaline feeling funky not like even like if his days ahead you you feel that and I think it's good you know and and a week before I just like I get that zone you know like where like I I just like happy you know I'm happy but at same time I'm focused you know so I I just I just feel that I remember one time like look I I give it as an example and I give this an example to my students as well I remember one time when I signed the lease from my new the new gym right after headquarters like 7,000 square feet it was a dream of my dreams okay the gym of my dreams I was so happy when I signed because it took me two years to find a spot and that day I decided to train man I was so happy it could be anyone to train with me I would like to add the first I least three times you know I wasn't such a joy I was like bad everything I was doing was working you know what I'm like I was so happy so I think like you've got to put your mind in that stage that's in that mode you know where you like your be smooth but also you you're happy you know because if you drive to the other side if you drag or your I said to the other side it's not gonna be fun you know and and people feel like oh I'll have fun have fun but you don't know how he is to be there you know if you if you there was like times that I I I kind of like didn't do my ritual like in the proper way I didn't have my mind like set up in the proper the proper stage that I supposed to be there like caused me like you know like that feeling off oh my god you know but every single time like what most of the times that I that I put myself in that stage where I'm so happy so thankful for everything you know and for all the train that I did that Hall all the hard work that I did I was like prepare mentally for sure because I think if this is more important than than their train you know itself like by itself so it's Andre you mentioned a minute ago like first of all like beautiful description of visualization me and Davis talked about this a lot and we're we're onboard with you I think that's such a key ingredient of performance underrated in my opinion right but uh you know I wanted to like you mentioned something a minute ago about like being the contact Allah with did it and I remember those days with a lot of nostalgia use the word spelled ah geez yeah can't translate it in English nostalgia is the closest thing to it but it was a really good time I said this interview I think you know today is probably the best coach I've ever had and I don't have a lot of love and respect for all my coaches but today you really had a special energy about them and and I'm not saying this to blow smoke up your butt but you remind me a lot of him I think you guys are very similar in a lot of ways whereas you bring a lot of energy everywhere you go like you have the charisma and I was wondering if that's just more of an accident or did you learn that from tentative because he seemed to create that sort of energy in the room definitely I learned a lot with him you know I learned a lot I learned a lot technique-wise you know but also like I learned a lot about believing myself with him or you know he was really really special for sure definitely like a great coach and did it it was amazing fighting as well so he knew it you know he knew how to to fight you know and he knew how to put that joy as well you know in during the fight and with the beastmode you know I'm more towards the beast mode than him he was like more like you know but yeah definitely I learned a lot with him for sure we talked a lot before you know and there was times that when I was like brown belt almost black girl that was kind of like yeah like you know from brown to black is such a huge difference so I don't know how the Future come you know like he's gonna be he always encouraged me you know having the right people like around you it's it's really important as well people that will encourage you not like saying like saying like no I'll you're the best everything would be okay no saying the truth you know say the truth because everyone can come and say oh you know you're gonna win donate to Train and all a lot of people do that I don't think that's the right way right but I think like in a way off like man you're well-prepared you're amazing you know and I believe you so we are together I'll be there for you so I always I always learn a lot with him for sure throw him you know but you know even like nowadays like sometimes I go fight he same attacks they say you know watch this watch they're you know all pull guard all still talk you know he's sometimes he give me tips even though he's not active but he's pay attention everything so he's amazing definitely like I'm very thankful for or his life and and everything you done for their sports as well you know you've done something Andreea that not only are you in my opinion I think you're the goat right now oh thanks I think not only because you've won you know II know ghee you're 180 CC and you've also won multiple super fights now but you've also done this in multiple weight classes you know so I think to me that like a lot of people and they say Marcelo's ago I don't think so because he never done well fighting people outside of his weight class but you have done well all around and I think that puts you in a League of top but not only that you're also one of the most successful coaches so you've done like a Dan Gable type thing we're not only where you're a world-class competitor but now you're also a world-class coach like what do you think because not most competitors don't really translate well into coaches because they know how to internalize their their processes but some people don't know how to explain that and pass it on to somebody else whereas you obviously have been able to do that really well well and I guess what types of things are you passing on to your students that you feel is making the biggest impact maybe something that other people aren't doing yeah I think like people are different you know people think differently like right on share like what I'm what I what I like to do or what I used to do to fight and all that how I prepare myself and everything but people are different like you probably like done like something like similar you know but not the same right people are different and you got to respect that of course but you got to also recognize like when you're you're athletes is being lazy or when he's being real you know or when he needs to push himself or when he needs to slow down you know I was a type of person that today they used to come to me and say slow down man slow down you know so he was like being real with me he's like man like calm down you're gonna get over train you know and I didn't understand that but there are some guys that it's like hey man you got to do a little bit more here you know so you can get your your your goal you know so in everywhere I think it's school is the same way too there are some people that of course I giving a cheery for them and motivating them say link encouraging words of course helps a lot but also you need to understand and that's why it's good for the coach to have a good relationship with it with the athlete that he has and it's pretty hard when you have like 20 guys on the mat they all like really good when you have just two or three it's kinda like easy cause you set up like a nice dinner barbeque just two three but every time that I need to set up something I need to do a party it is hard like to to talk with everyone in learning so I just give my message like doing them like the training like when we line up before and after classes I tried to give a masters maybe like there's one person I need to give a message but I I talk with the group and then someone else can get that message as well by sometimes it's private as well because it's not like everyone that can get the message you know the way that you want to explain sometimes you call the per se can I talk to you and then you talk and then you see like what's going on because you you have you need to have that feeling you know like when the person it's really willing to train or not or if the person is being lazy or not right for example I give you two examples here I can give an example of kind of Duarte right he's amazing he's really good man like he doesn't train too much you know he he trains a lot when he trains he trains hard but like he's a professor he attacks professor my body so I gotta like just rest and sleep I'm like okay alright and it works like that you know he wasn't a guy he wasn't a guy that that the type of athletes that you need to push really hard in order like to make him like really sore and then like feel that he's working hard first he's big right handsome heavyweights they usually train less and also they have less fights like ways they they have more fights like a lightweight blue belts have like seven fights you know at Worlds but a heavyweights bluebells have like maybe four fights you know you gotta like understand and because I compete in different weight divisions I pretty much like knows like how the bracket works what works to become a champ or in that division you know when I was like blue belt which seventy years old that was like featherweight you know I used to go away to be far away and then I went up to like meat oh happy as a black belt so I know like the middle have you like had last five but of course I I thought of me don't have when I was brown belt I thought of me don't have a couple times when I was purple belt as well when I used to find absolutely a lot as well you know I always compete weight and accent so everything that I passing my for you I think you hate me they gave me the you know the the capability to be on on the feet you know on the shoes of my athletes you know so I be in that path like I know what's going on with your mind I'd be in that path where I wasn't waiting for for a year and then I start we win we win and then I start feeling like oh you know I'm really good you know and then like you start like you guys slap in the face because you'll be like so like our guy that's let's say you know and then you gotta be humble again so so you need to like manage all that which are out is because at the end of the day is the mindset the mindset to train the mindset to compete and the mindset to see things the mindset the way he see things right the way she's opponent and the way you see the training the way you see the tournament so all the things according like to the way you see things you know and I believe that I fast through a lot of things like I compete when I was sick you know I compete when I was hurt you know like I train what it was why I was hurt you know I know I know this I know I passed all that and I spend so much time on the mat and sometimes people they think this is this is a they just see that this side are you winning right but they don't see like everything that I fastened but I passed through a lot of things you know I remember like times that I was like like sick like sick like having diarrhea cramps you know because I was there I was dehydrated but I never denied myself me saying I'm not gonna compete you know because nobody came to me say hey you can't compete like that what happened I went there like that and I end up losing you know where I have like a broken rib and I was like no I can't compete I can fight like this but I to fight I couldn't move and I end up losing even though I didn't lose like badly but I lost you know so you just need to have the right people tell you and I think the role of the coaches give you tips like that you know oh hey this is my opinion but at the end of the day is your choice if you want to go go you know also like the pins of the tournament - there's only one world's every year or one in 180 CC every two years so I'm fighting or you're gonna wait for two more years you know like it's your decision you know it's your decision at the end of the day but he put on a scale all the time because also what people does like they they always say oh when they lose is because of their coaches or the training partners or whatever but when they win is because themselves you know like it's always like that right so you gotta you gotta be real you gotta tell the truth always the truth and see the wasted things and then I think when you like think together and thankfully my wife also she's a great competitor right and she passed through a lot of things like that - and sometimes me and her like we're together like helping those athletes you know and we go to a decision you know this type of decisions you know like maybe like if they injury or not but I believe like the path that I that I walked through through all my career and thankfully I compete a lot because I love I think it helped me a lot you know I put myself in in different situations and I think at the end of the day at the end of the day for any leader the key is communication alright so you got to make sure have a good communication with your athletes because if you don't things cannot be good right so communication is everything absolutely I feel like one thing I wanted to touch that was the overtraining because I know coming from a wrestling background I've always over trained and I've always felt that I've had the problem of tempering myself of saying like I got a stop training at this point and because my brother and I were our own coaches for most of our career we didn't have that outside voice saying hey you need to slow down you know it was two competitors looking at each other so like if I slow down he's looking at me like oh you're being weak right now mentally I know I gotta step up and push harder yeah so it's only something I learned like in the past few years like oh you know there is such a thing you guys say it's okay you could stop without being a [ __ ] yeah it's possible because in my head that was the image if I stopped training oh my god I'm weak you know I'm I'm not pushing through this and what that one thing that they today used to say is to say this the rafting day is a training day oh you gotta rest we go over to train and also you say like the rest time is is also a trainees part of the train it's true absolutely quick how are you for time because I knew ya discussed like you have a class today like how worried you got I'm worried for time alright now I can I can hold a little bit yes I can't go up to like three o'clock okay yeah because my coaches will be there I just like to be a show up you know sometimes thanks talking to students but we can talk more because I remember that period very well I wanted to hear your thoughts on this cuz you know today's all these like it's like it was like a case study because you have was exceptionally talented you have someone was exceptionally charismatic exceptionally successful has you know what I consider to be under him at the time are the best team personal you know what went wrong because you would think that from the outside you will look at that picture and you would go how could things be better for that guy this guy's got everything going for him right he came from and where he was going right and you know I think it's like a lesson for all of us I think everyone needs to learn something from that because you know it doesn't matter where you are like its you're never really you're never really in a position of complete safety and security and with knitted a man like you were there the whole time I was there I remember that process really well what went wrong yeah so uh I think like you know like the good thing is I when when I have the period of time where I had a coach right like into 2008 then I started aiming me when I came back I I was I put myself in jeddah days spots because didn't a when he when he opened his gym and when he saw his team he didn't have anyone above him it was the one like make all the decisions training wise you know for the future of the treat the team and everything and it's not easy it's not easy so you know and you know like you know today too right like he's a guy that you have a really strong opinion really strong mind right and sometimes I keep you just try to aware him or something he was just like ah shut up me and let me do like you know like just like this you know he he's a lot of authority you know and and it was hard to like to sometimes like make him listen you know you he's very exceptional very special but I think like when you when you when you don't have someone like you know above you it's really hard for you because because like you start like thinking that whatever you do is it's the right way why but sometimes it's not so you know like you start you start like getting like so popular winning everything with a great team and all that and you know like the same thing happened with me too maybe the same thing can happen to you or happen with you as well where like you feel really good about the work that you do it and you think like everything is going right because these are showing the right results the results that you want but like people sometimes they think that they can divide their lives into and I I read about this and I see this and even there are quotes about this they say you have your professional life and you have a personal life so yours Euler itself as an athlete and you yourself as a normal person you know but at the end of the day both are one you just want you know you can divide that because everything that affecting your personal life will affect your performance when you were an athlete and also your performance in the tournament also can affect her personal life you know your performance eásá as a successful businessman or or a man like that fails I can't affect her personal life you know so I believe like you know like it was hard for me to manage both you know and the time that he was like professional it was really professional but it's I'm really the personal side in that time he didn't have someone to like slowing down of things you know and say things like hey be careful here be careful there because he was young it was only 24 years old or maybe 23 I think 44 when everything happened you know imagine like you're 24 years old for you have like the bass team you whinny you know and everyone come and man he was a man like Diddy who used to date a lot of girls you know they know a lot of girls like like handsome black guy you know like champion you know and then together into success you know they they the bad things comes as well you know when you were new plants like wheat you have like the author then what is the name of their the thing that grows with the wheat you know like the show you punk oh joy we show you three the wheat in the West yeah the we don't stop the bad part of those looks like we but it's not readily yeah exactly so you know people know you know right the weeds who showed you three gonna we bring wet his wet and and and it was hard to separate because together come grow both and then you need to separate you know and I think that was something that that he couldn't like stop you know because he was like doing things by by his own he was so you own you know and we don't blame him I don't blame me at all yeah you know because he was really young right but it that that taught me and not only me maybe like everyone that was there you know like all the channels that were there back then taught us something like no matter what where you are like no matter what have these can fall apart if you don't pay attention you know so and you know unfortunately like together with like parties and all the Alec you have like you know the bad side of drugs and all that so and it doesn't combined with an athlete you know in in the coach so you we all know what happened like people can make a research I'm not here gossiping or anything I'm just saying the truth and the things that I that I know and I love him and I talk to him a lot we've been good friends until nowadays you know but now he's he's just like leaving he's like maybe feels happier than before maybe you know I'm not he's I'm not like on his skin but probably like he learned a lot with that he learned about people he learned about listen you learn a lot you know like a lot I believe like when you when things doesn't go accordingly like to to the way that you think or the way that you expect you always learn you always been alone you see the big picture you know and sometimes the only way for you to see the big picture is when you're down below you know and not when you're at the top so you gotta be like silent look like from the bottom I just like that and then we start over again it seems to be an unfortunate consequence that people will only learn with a rock bottom right that's where like people have serious changes in her life which can then become a good I said like you look at the silver lining in the cloud where when you're at the top of your game it's hard to learn because you think you know it all you think I'm the king why should I have to change I'm doing great but then it yeah you get the hump the humbling that comes with falling down but then maybe that's the opportunity to grow as a person yeah and maybe like just speaking about that Roberts you make that question for me for me is not easy to talk about this because people judge you you know they see what he says oh you're just like it happened you know what happened you know uh and I learned no and I think like McKee is one thing that I tried to do too and I love to do is to learn you know like the same way rubber you know like you saw my jujitsu back then you saw my noogie back then and now you see my noogie now you know like the way I used to compete before and they way they compete now it's always getting better you know because I hope in myself to learn and to listen to you know and a person that I have that really like like make me like wake up just give me like a wake-up you know hey go back here you know you stuck because look you move me this way and suddenly you start like you know going out off the path like it happens and then like you teach like oppa let's go back like thankfully I have my wife thing you know I always say that she's a very strong woman she's thankfully like she's the one that like always like you know she knows like she's wise you know she's why she has that feeling so and I I always honored her and a lot of people say my anger this man it's true because I don't think if I was by myself you know cuz I I'd not say that I never done like any bad choices in my life of course I give my career I did I done before you know I it was a moment in my in my career that I was like trying to party as well trying to like girls and you know champion you know drugs and all that you know but I know that I was like awake right away and you know wake me up he was what happy within it here because it was like that time you know we were all like ah you know in that glove more and then bow just like oh my god you know and then like not only I wake up but also like together with this I found like such a great woman that support me a lot and maybe you can do that by her own gas but I believe that the teamwork is always better two is better than one you know I believe two is better than one and it's always great to to have like a different perspective vision of life you know and my wife is the one that helped me a lot with that thankfully mathematically we use it as truth to is greater than one so we can agree and I definitely believe that it helps Center you or having somebody and whether you know whoever it is oh it looks like he might have dropped out oh let me it's not battery I'm gonna go ahead add them back in hopefully we get him in but yeah I know a lot of people when they have a good woman or you know good husband whatever the case is it definitely helps sending you my brother was one of those as well when he met his wife Reema yeah it definitely helped bring them together and level now it's we we sharp each other we help each other you know it's just like you know you got it you can like mountain like angelic how I said I should say like I came to I didn't come to compete but I I came to cooperate you know to be from the same side you know never like because sometimes nowadays people they they try to fight you know I mean like if they have a relationship know you gotta do what I like in a dissident I think it's a balance like one help each other right and of course I can she knows like if I succeed you succeed as well you know and if she succeed I'll succeed as well so just like that yeah definitely party is a teamwork right you say it's true a lot of people are competing with their significant other and it that creates a lot of hostility you know so you think you're pulling off something pretty remarkable it's not only both you and your wife you're your coaches together you work together and that's enough and it's usually tricky for people to be in the same business together and sometimes you bring you home your work home with you and there's differences of opinion and all that it's not easy yeah XO well I think we can't get Robert back the record it does happen now so you got to watch the temperature of your phone even if you're in the shade which is insane but uh yeah that's the Vegas heat before yeah pollen I finished right after like I finish that's it so we start gossiping about you Robert I'm looking like it like a bear like that's what I keep hearing my daughter's oh you look like you look like a Viking nice axe but under a man like this is a really good this is amazing one thing with the tide meet today Lori's had like a warm place in my heart because she was such an amazing coach I didn't always meet I die with him like me and him had a lot of issues like we weren't always like best friends you know there's very different people which is you know yeah it is what it is but you just said something that you know like it's a very good point it was very young you know it was a lot on someone who's very young what do you think about the amount of power he was like the influence he had within like and not having anyone around him that's the other thing like he was a young guy and he was on top of the world of the coach as a practitioner as a gym owner everything everyone wanted to be around him and he's that no one to tell them amen slow down let's make some wise decisions here you mentioned your wife and I've noticed that that's huge in a fight of the career of any competitor slash fighter who is to have that stabilizing force because especially wonder the young they tend to make a lot of these mistakes of not knowing how to deal with you know popularity money whatever you know and I think that's a very good point ever Robert you know like I was like I like to read through and I started liking to read like after we met we meet now I read more than than than before before I didn't read much but I started learning a lot you know like since like I of course Ike I have my wife and and I have people that loves me that healthy but also like I learned from books right so and there's one like you know like that that book from apollyon hill like thinking Grow Rich right and he made sure there you know he made sure that when you are when you are young you know into your 40s you're driven you're driven by your sexuality you know you've driven about like having woman everything you do is to have sex know you're treating for that like you want a nice car so you get a more woman you know you wonder like a nice shoes we're like nice because you want to try to be attractive and I believe anyway when you when you marry like when you're young you know not that you know like you're gonna like be separate up there you know because you start like okay so now I'm responsible I want to want to have a family so all of this right and then you kind of like start standing like your goals for the future right those who are coming after you like dude they're like you just like if you don't have someone that then your own place driven by their will get that desire because it's just really strong is this true this desire that we have you know within like you know like it's nice to go and have fun it's nicely bother you know sex is really good you know but it's it's very important to that you know this will we we're not like be something that we'll need until the end of your life so of course like you can but man like what about the the next generation you'll be like so selfish we just thing about that moment right now you know so I think like this is this is what I learned - and also one believes you know I believe like according to what I believe I believe I believe that if I if I do something wrong against my family or against my wife if I make her sad I know this will will not be against her but against someone that can see me whatever ago which is God you know I think this fear like tells me to keep like also like on this box you know and I am very thankful for that and I can deny that of course I work really hard I did all that but that fear that you have of like stepping away of the path really helps you to keep like moving right no no that you never gonna make a mistake because you're seeing remaining mistakes you know you can fail but you know that he's there for you know anytime so I truly trusted and rubber nose like no profile he made me before I'm gonna walk home with things like thanks not like I'm not saying that getting better because a lot of people they judge a lot you know like I follow your faith especially if you mention the name of Jesus but you know it's not easy but you know I'm not a shame of that I truly believe that in a absolutely shouldn't be no I think everybody's faith is an important part of who they are and how they handled things and it I was about to say pretty much well you were talking about with that it in how it kind of the downfall of him and then how you were saying how the sex drive is so powerful but being responsible with that is another thing it just goes I always make the difference between going for a quick thrill versus building happiness right like building happiness takes time it takes effort right you have to build it's like making a house whereas getting a quick thrill is like starting a bonfire and letting something burn you know it's fun but it's it's gone after the next day and you're left with nothing right so I think with the things you're saying are true like when you have a good relationship with somebody you're building happiness because you're building something that's long-term and it's gonna grow as you develop family you have kids and you know they have kids and you've built something like a tree versus people who are just going out partying going for throwing drugs that diminishes at the end of the day you're left with nothing so I think it's a key difference when people say I'm happy but they don't understand it to me there's there's a difference between joy between thrill and happiness and I think everything you've been talking about is about being happy and putting yourself in our mindset to be achieve more and to be overall fulfilled in life so I think it's a great message because no but you're right i think that everything you guys are saying makes perfect sense and it does point out an aspect of the fight game that no one ever talks about every talk call the importance of the mind technique being in shape obvious right but it's your environment and i'm becoming more and more aware of this over time like who are you around the people who you are around plays a huge role in your career like if you're around the wrong people they will do go out of their way to pull you down you're right they're right around the right people dad mom brother sister wife husband like the right people they will lift you up to like Heights that you even know you could achieve he's oh yeah I have a quote for you for us actually they had company corrupt good character yeah well you know where is that in the Bible you know I think I think there's a lot of wisdom because you know it's you can tell yourself all day I'm a moral and good human being it and you may be but the thing is if you're if you're in the wrong environment on the wrong people their norm their behavior their culture becomes your behavior whether you realize it or not it seeps into your mind and you become like them without realizing so like I'm very aware this is my children like I I'm very aware like what what they're watching what they're thinking what they're saying who they're around because you know children you know that your father do under like it becomes they they are very influenced by their friends by their peers oh yeah they're around please role and what kind of character they're gonna develop later in life right I became aware of this late in life I wish I have learned this lesson earlier you know I'm very aware of this now I'm friends with everyone you know me first but like I'm very I'm very like uh you know careful about who I let in my close call these days because I don't want any one impact in my life and a negative much of that my time and moving forward everyone who walks in my life has to be bringing something to the table that improves on me and sometimes it's the truth sometimes it's a hug sometimes it's like good job Rob sometimes it's like you need help with this I got your back these little things man like that's what builds happiness man just develop those sort of meaningful relationships more important titles money anything else you can think of and it is surrounding yourself with the right people we're sure and probably like think about like anything you look sir like look like around you like look your shirts okay for example I can Oasis and each shirt by Kings nice right I'm doing like advertising here for you if you see like the tag inside it stays like how you're supposed to like take care of your shirt right yeah if you grab like a car key like inside the car there's like something that tells you how to use the car yeah you just like battery here off like camera like inside the camera there's something that tells you like how to use it right yeah well let me tell you there's like a book that teach you how to live life you know and that's the only thing that people don't though most people don't see the manual of life you know like how are you use my life I know how to use the car I know how to use this and maybe sometimes you struggle you know in a way like to use your car because you don't read the manual you know but once you read it you're like okay so that's how I use it so I need to like spare my energy here you said I was painting my image there right so that's the way that I see things you know no I think there's a manual and I believe completely and this is being helped in my life I'm not saying here that I'm a super here because anything can happen with me right I can I can I can pass through this were like really quick like I don't know if how long I'll leave hopefully I can leave like until I see my grandchildren but anything can happen with anyone but I know one thing like this is like a very short time period that we're leaving that comparing the time that we leave forever is I mean like and I think like the only thing we we we take from this life is what we leave in this life you know what we live and we leave so I think like that's the only thing we take so and I I'm trying my best like to make sure like we keep moving that way and especially between this time you require a lot of faith you know I think it's well said under it and and I couldn't agree more like I I think you know everything you said is is is true and uh I'm very sure Dave I know Dave I've got to know Dave well over the last couple three about 2-3 years Dave 17 yes three years your vagus right now yes I I remember I was in Florida for most of my life yeah I started moving around like in 2015 actually lived in West Virginia for two years believe it on that me and Dave are starting a master's class for a TCC vets so next but Andre are you retired or not I'm sure you've answered this question what's the hand you know you got nothing to prove you know that right look if either I'm retired or I'm retired I [ __ ] [ __ ] I know retire become retired an amazing career man for sure you got nothing to prove but I mean obviously people won't want to watch you grapple again but at some point man you you know if there ever come this you know take my advice or not but uh you know if there comes a moment where you feel like what is it that I should do man just follow your heart it's brought new very hard in life don't listen to people you know people a lot of times they want you to fight for them it's not for you it's for them you know and that's one reason why I stopped cuz I realize at some point like my heart wasn't there anymore and I was gonna do it because people thought I should and I'm like now I'm not doing it for you man I always did it for my own personal reasons and that's my advice to people that's you got to do it because your hearts in the right place in the second it's not that's some really good moment to stop that's that's my my opinion yeah thanks Robert thanks I think the same to for sure right now I'm retired the freedom answers for you questions but I know you got your daddy grew up here so we'll power to do this again sometime well head like go ahead like right now I'm good I'm good okay well I asked you guys know Sid you guys gonna pull this somewhere yeah what no we've done now like 20 I think 30 of them that we're awesome so this is so rad I'm a gringo man it seems like you [ __ ] there a little bit for a strategy in competition and your wrestling skills became very obvious and very good and to the point where like pretty much I don't think there was anybody out there that could out wrestle you and it seemed to make winning for you a lot easier it's it is there something in particular that drew you into wrestling and when you started competing or what not because I mean I've seen your matches when you with cyborg and cyborg is a it's a good stand-up wrestler himself and you ran him over a bunch of times and you know with Felipe the same thing so it just seems you became a bull with the wrestling you know yeah so I just wanted to feel like where that come from and how much time yeah like when I if you watch my fights like this to see 2007 and then man you watch it so silly like I have lower stance it was ridiculous when I watched I'm like oh my god what I was doing you know but even though I was taking people down I don't know how but I was because I believed so much that I could take people down for example I got a third-place matching against khakha record in 2007 I took him down so you can see my wrestling was like so bad my stance was all wrong but they're like I stop it start training him in May and then I noticed that the importance of my wrestling in order to make my jujitsu works in MMA and Robert did MMA so he knows what I'm talking about because if you don't know how to scramble or if you don't know how to put the person down how it's gonna probably better do your jujitsu didn't make people don't poo garden you cannot just go there and fool people who are you know all the time he works maybe once you know it's Weiss but now all the time so then after I did my MMA career after my MMA career as I realized that the importance of resting for the noogie and then I went to Friday to see C 2009 my ration was a little bit better a little bit better but I was fighting Wesley no wrestling is it Wesley Wesley for Brazil so I was doing Wesley back there my Wesley was okay you know 2011 I need wrestling when I moved to United States in 2010 but I did my whole camp with one of my students Joe Joe is not here anymore so he passed away unfortunately he was my first black belt American and back the day he was brown and I say Joe can you help because he was a nerd you know he was really like a nerd man you know we should train like this should sway like they're like I like this I like that nobody's like this so he was like into noogie a lot and I say Joe let's go man two days later he shall walk with three wrestlers one guy I was like 250 pounds huge like super tall seeking the guy was six five six six the guy was huge and then then and then he show up and another guy was pretty small and fast it was Dave this guy be the big guy was named the other guy was small like really fast was justing and he end up being like my wrestling coach back then and also he has an beard and ear he's in the army right now but Andy he looks like Tokyo he was like pariahs you know but like was greco-roman and those guys are teaching arrested so he brought like three type pretty body types of one the tall guy was like a lot about blast double blast of a blast up and then the guy who was like Tokyo he was more like a body locks and toss you around like raccoon and these guys small guy was like an oddball like shooting low but I like ankle pigs like duck hunters so and then I started learning like wrastling just like a high school kid you know so this guy Justin was a high school teacher he used to teach in I saw the high school year San Diego case I helped me man I trained with them I of course I site Reina I trained to do so as well so I prepare myself like learning like more different things about nogi and Joel had a certain knowledge you know and they he helped you with that in them and I felt my digital boom you know by my way of seeing Oggy changed and I started recognizing the importance of rasa and an agency see 2011 if you watch wow it was a big change don't exactly to wrestling you know like when everybody noticed everybody noticed people like me even like Sean wieners was like was a guy like in the you know the commentator you know and he was like man go for West it looks sharp look he's like he's climbing the hips like oh my god I took Popovich down out oh my god I got two Popovich down like two three times you know yeah it was crazy which is such amazing wrestler and and then I start getting a lot of confidence and then I talk continue and then I I took you know couple times to during the five twenty minutes straight and my conditioning was amazing and I felt like so good and to be honest like I could do way better than that but I was like two years two years and a half not competing jiu-jitsu there was a little bit like oh my god I don't know how it's gonna happen you know that was my first major tournament after I came back into jettisons you know and then I won double gold and after that I start prioritizing wrestling and then in 2013 I found another coach that was that's my coach right now coach Brad leave man think about a guy that's fast his coach badly like he's like a lightning Wow but he's 45 years old you know and he's like Ally me and I imagine like this guy with like 20 years old 18 years old he was like he was like man like crazy fast you know and coach Fred he has phenomenal wrestling skills and the way he teach even though like I had an auto wrestling coach and I have different routes in the meantime between in 2013 since Joe leg laughed then I start like when I call code for us tonight this is like the way he teach the way he showed me rest and then side help me with everything and then like you'd see like me proving over and over it then but it luckily luckily I think that no one thrown jiu-jitsu was doing like they do right now until they see me are they this to see 2011 you know I think like you changed the mindset of philosophy for all to train for agency no it's not about like only wrestling need everything like some people think like oh I know you need everything for athletes are such a great tool for you to to apply your know he you know to apply your game and then after that I just felt like no unfortunately I didn't know how to fight no gimmick or you know I didn't have the vision of the note back in 2007 back in 2005 and I try my first trial you know just just in 2011 when I was already almost 20 27 years old 28 years old that I was like oh that's how did you you know that's how wrassling is know rasli that's a good one you guys like it's funny because I just said Wesley like dress League yes the sound doesn't exist in Portuguese so Wesley but you know you're right because it me and David talked about this before as well but it's a TCC rules are very wrestling lean in it so because I think when they shoulda sheik came up with the rules he want to do something somewhat neutral right where he didn't take a look a the submissions but he made it in the way where wrestling's would have like a good shot at winning if they you know i take down those who like a big big be a big part of the game and that's what a decency rules is that's that's why like you're seeing more and more rest in the realization you had in 2011 i think that deep down until we've always knew that i think it deep down it wasn't like 2005 you didn't know that but it's 2005 you had Wesley not wrestling so like you work with I remember like watching tape a marker taking shots and pride just rewind and watching it I'm like okay that's what I'm supposed to do I'll just practice on my own in my bluebells but I never had a wrestling coach so it's like speaking for myself I never neglected it I always thought it man I this is important cuz I always wanted to fight him in May but I who do you learn it from like they've had the privilege I think the guy like Dave is hurt in some ways because he described you didn't have a coach him and his brother for the most part but man you had such an outstanding Foundation which is wrestling and then you know you had some submissions to that it's a quick transition to make if you do it seriously like we've seen this movie a million times but no I couldn't agree more Man III enforced rested in my kids class my beginners class all my classes like wrestling is a part of the curriculum I am the pole guard but I always say if you can choose it's better to be on top so they don't get the mindset of pulling guard every time they lose a scramble yeah but you could think like the Sheik was really smart in making the rules because the rules first were made to invite other grappling fights right and most of the grappling fights most of them only Jiu Jitsu I think you practice on the floor like a lot like over 90% is like only flooring game but like all the other grappling fights very much like 60 to 70 percent standing like judo wrassling sambal you know they must be like standing on their feet a lot and and they you thought about like okay how am I gonna confess guys to come to fight this event you know against guys that will be pulling guard and all that all let me give you advantage like like for them like if you're full guard in the finals is a minus one so the guy who's you don't need to take the guy down no so and then it co Venza but even though you used to partition it's like they did better because there's so much scramble right so and then you end up like see more jiu-jitsu fighters we need the ages to see more than crackler judo fighters and all the other fights winning so and I think like it's like when you fight him in me right and of course every man the beginning was made also the rule was made to bring everyone for all the martial arts like together right like they say okay you can do whatever you want we're art there's no point all right it's like when you go fight MMA and without knowing boxing it doesn't matter if you are jujitsu champion whatever you can be like the best but if you don't know how to be understand how to like absorb the punch you know how to defend the kick you know you're gonna be trouble is the same like when you fight a PCC if you don't know like stand up you know it's gonna be hard on you it's gonna be tough you know and if you think about all the chants all then pretty much know something like you know on top you know standing all of them like have good takedowns you know it is important I couldn't agree you see Dave what else man this guy's got a lot of things to share I'm trying to think I'm trying to ask them a very unique question sir I got a question for you oh okay what why don't why don't you like you like you you and all the OP those guys just join Zenith because because you're waiting for the other way around [Laughter] you know but you know you know one thing I was like they come off like the best team of all time right because I one of my hobbies now studied you just the history I can take man Carlson Gracie and I can think like you know Alliance for a period there but then I remember like everything they came out of Master /tt later bras there I liked that group that would have been you know us zenith in kavacha Otto's check map brazo which is still around with Capri dough and Phillippi and you know those guys and tell these as well like that was like we would have been by far did you guys with an amazing group of people and it's so bad that like I sometimes I wonder like why couldn't we keep it together and I think I think I know the reasons why but it was as far as like talent goes and in like you know tournament results I thinking about its its it'd be difficult for any team to ever match that I think the your team comes running a very close you by yourself at your guys I think so honey but like I said I'm not saying this because I was part of it but I hope it doesn't sound that way but like it was a very special group of it wasn't that we weren't that many it was like a small group of people and we did so well in tournaments I have a lot of good memories yeah you know it's it's the whole team thing is such a complex issue and you did so many gifts as soon as there's success that money involved things get complicated it's hard to separate you know the two I wish we could easily you know you know good good over that hurdle as friends as teammates as but it gets very difficult man you do a really good job keeping it together by the way like hey you know I watch you from before but obviously but it's it's not an easy one man like I I don't know not easy sorry what do you think about you know in recent years we've had a lot of like the submission only 20 minutes versus point tournaments well what is your take on that like do you think the submission only tournaments bring value or is it kind of like displaying ups for it yeah I have my opinion like maybe at the beginning something like oh wow this is different you know well ones like you you doing that rule set for a couple years before start figure out ways to fight under the rules you know at the end of the day you know the athlete he fights under the rule and and the one that will will get the prize you know the crown or the medal is the one that fighter quarterly you know with to the rules yeah so you know it you can come up with a new rule maybe the begin you'd be like wow this is so different you know well later all like people are starting okay so to be good in this room I got these at that you know and you see like right now the their submission only tournaments you see a lot of crises where it does end up in a submission you end up like escape fast yeah so it's just like a matter of training and doctor yourself accordingly you know so I don't think like you get great like judge is just so complex like you can't create like so many rules are you jutsu so many rules you sister is a MMA you know is there valid to do properly you can get like you can get any other rules for any other sport apply here and there make something different but later on I think people find a way to win by the room how many times the IBF changed the rule every year they changed the rule like every month you know so it's all the time so you gotta keep up like it's like you know like when your phone needs to update yeah right it's like I've did you need to update your your your rule sets every month you should don't keep up you kind of like get old you know same with judo judo has been updating their rule sets for under year like they still haven't found that perfect recipe like they're still constantly they can tweaks to the rules because it's bad competitors you're right competitors always find a way to exploit that to their favor just it's just human nature yeah we find a ways man it's crazy we find techniques but I like I like that has like different rules I like that I like when they fight in the cage I like what they fight in agreeing I like the sub-only I like when they don't do some bowling I like when they do I like this one you know but you will always find a way I like the cage idea more than anything I to me the worst part of a grappling matches is out of balance oh yeah I have history with our two so whenever you have to restart something it gets weird you know I mean I rather like and it's not realistic because there's nowhere out there where you can just run out of bounds it's you there's always a wall somewhere so you might as well put it up and use it I mean to me like obviously like an MMA it's a it's a really important part of the fight is how to control the cage and score your takedowns and all that I don't see why we wouldn't have that element and grappling as well now I see in torment formats it doesn't make sense because you're not gonna have like 20 cages and so I get that but they can super fights and stuff like that impossible I think it's a it's a nice ad you would also avoid a lot of overtimes that way because people will be getting taken down you know yeah a lot of times doesn't matter how big is a Mac you know it doesn't matter like I was like couple couple days ago I was watching Roger versus Association man they fought like huge math area and even though there they ran out of bounce a couple times you know it's crazy you know if there's a matter like yeah you've got to put like you gotta have their border in Gration mindset back in the day when you thought about putting alligators and yeah I think that was definitely solve it yeah well I I agree with the cage thing it's it's interesting because it forces you to wrestle upwards like you know fades cage wrestling is like it says category in itself it's not jujitsu it's not wrestling it so it's its own category but it also prepares guys for it Minmei which is something that's somewhat being lost and the younger generations of jujitsu they're not interested I have a question for you guys do you think the wrestlers they're more well that prayer for MMA after their career or then the jiu-jitsu fighters what do you thing like you think they're more prepared and then jiu-jitsu fighters we're anime to make a transition well I mean I came from wrestling and went into MMA and all that I think there's a few things that can't come to that one wrestling that builds that toughness as part of the program and there is somewhat striking and wrestling as well most people if you don't wrestle you don't know but cross phases clubbing you're getting hit and I broke my nose three times in wrestling not only broken at once and fighting mm-hmm so like you you you used to getting hit taking punishment you have conditioning so you have those things but at the same time not every wrestler makes a good fighter there's guys who don't know how to do takedowns once you start throwing punches I mean you look at a guy like Dan Henderson was a very successful fighter but he didn't show really good rest in his fights he gets taken that on all the time and I always watch him like house this guy was like a wrestler in that kid be cool right equally yeah oh yeah he hasn't done he looks like he's good but Manny just keep getting it looks like unfortunately he's unfortunate thing I want to see that kid like see this old man yeah you know you know what it is my opinion on that this whole discussion has always been something like you know I think that BJJ obviously is a more complete art for the simple fact that everything that is legal in wrestling is we're gonna be J - the suplex you can't suplex someone on their neck it's the only thing in wrestling that's illegal and everything else is legal so wrestling fits inside BJJ however I think that wrestlers hyper emphasized a few aspects of grappling that BJJ guys from a very young age are taught to it's okay to be on your back it's okay to lose scrambles and there's a conditioning and toughness element and I think that wrestlers come out of you know college as tough for individuals in general because it's a different kind of mindset as to the privatized sector in Brazil like for example if people are teaching for a membership horizon collegiate wrestling is like man you want to stay in college you want a place to sleep you want to eat well you better do what we tell you to do so it's more of a military structure and there's also a selective selection process that goes on and wrestling they begins at a very young age you end up with the best athletes right you're a smart kid you just spelling-bee Rubik's Cube and math you're athletic you go to the football team you go to the residence and stuff where the Soviets would call the pyramid right they create the u.s. uses that system as well it's a pyramid you end up with all the athletes and then the very ones at the top go to call the general scholarship right so do you thing like wrestlers they're more prepared for MMA and generally speaking yes in general terms there were premier prepared for and then made up not because of jiu-jitsu as an art but how digits was taught and practiced there's a guy as an art BJJ is more but we are teaching it in a way that is on it is not in tune with how MMA takes place I think that's kind of changing a bit I mean if you asked this question like 20 years ago I would say obviously wrestling I think now though like you see that because of guys are you Andrew I'm a wrestling in a more popular there's a lot more people who are now teaching wrestling earlier on I think and before I remember when I would watch jiu-jitsu tournaments they were very slow-paced and like I remember I was I'd say yeah that I think was it a Pan Am's in 1999 and there would be people who would like this grab each other and then slowly sit to God and like the referee was talking to them and I was coming from wrestling like man what the hell is going on this is not competing they're like they're like having a conversation that match you know and but I think the intensity has changed a lot more you know so I think now jiu-jitsu has athletes right there are people who are conditioning and they're they're doing streams and conditioning in the training so I think that the next generation it will probably better prepared you know bigger say yeah in the beginning is kind of early you have sees there weren't any athletes there were just guys who did martial arts and there was a lot of tough guys but there weren't athletes now in the UFC it's all athletes they're all people who are physical specimens who trained their whole lives for this particular thing jiu-jitsu has athletes now right there's people you're not getting into a BCC just because you're good you have to be a specimen you have to be really well conditioned you have great technique good coach behind you so I guess it depends on who you're like who are we grabbing has the base model for the jiu-jitsu is it the guy coming from your team or it's it just like somebody familiar someone coming from your team I'm saying they're probably better prepared then your average wrestler would be you know so I think that's evolved a lot you know yeah I think right now like maybe the next generation of lastly also trained to Jitsu I have a lot of kids in my gym that they they compete both they could be wrestling and jiu-jitsu and I believe like both sports like they help each other you can become a great wrestler if you do jiu-jitsu like you can do better with a scrambles I believe I'm gonna help a lot and also you can become a great jiu-jitsu fighter if you have a good wrestling - it only helps a lot with your take doll your stance like you're your speed your explosion and the reason that I think that the wrestlers they're a little bit more well prepare the then jiu-jitsu fighters is because they always they always find Oggy they always come Pino me that's the first thing you know also like that the punch side of all that you talk about and also the matches has hands like intervals you know has that there are minute break right he's one minute 30 seconds break so it definitely helps you to get a stamina to come back to the next round where jujitsu will fight like especially near black belt and most of people that makes transition from jujitsu to anime they're black belts so they fight ten minutes you know like a lot of rounds ten minutes it fights a little bit slower you know if you think II you know so I think like it's definitely like of course one arts help other you know we help each other like Gracia uses you just helps wrestling but like you can if you're one guy who pure juice another guy who pure wrestling I think like the guy who has piercings he's just so it'll be more like you know a little bit more ahead and you see that in ever made so it's not like just something that we say here they citizen you know the one thing it was a problem in jujitsu is that in jujitsu because the way the rules aren't I've always been critical of the rules I think we've never found it a very a martial art kinda rule it's very sport oriented but done in jujitsu you're allowed to win very tactically like a lot of strategy guys win right in wrestling it's not that there's no strategy but there's a lettuce ISM will out like you you have to be in shape you're gonna have to actually go to war with people whereas in jiu-jitsu more and more now you get away with wrapping people up in a hotel of 50/50 boom fights over you know like and that right there obviously who's gonna translate better than a the guy was getting used to winning 5050 with the lapel or the guy that's used to sprawl and grinding and you know winning every single scramble at one of them and in a sense wrestling is a lot closer to MMA even though it's far less complete well it's a good point you both bring one with Andre the fact that there are rounds and they're short rounds increases the intensity by many levels right and then to the second point would you bring is also that you can't really stay in a position for too long wrestling called stalling very quickly I remember like after doing jiu-jitsu and MMA I went back to do a freestyle wrestling tournament and I got called for stalling within the first five seconds of the match we shook hands we go and I backed up a little bit and the Redwoods boom stalling I'm like man I'm just gonna it's done so the pacing is very differently even if you have a good position if you just hold it they're gonna stand you back up you got to always be moving so it creates a lot more scrambles which requires a lot more endurance explosive endurance where like getting to say Andre yeah the ATTC match is 20 minutes long you can't go all the whole way you're gonna gasp so you have to go slow right and MMA is three five-minute rounds or it's like a middle ground it's not very long but it's not five minutes yeah it's not very short either but I piece my belt I'm exactly and you and your pacing is very different and there's still tactics I go you always see people look what I take down within the last 30 seconds you know to place around on top and score so but yeah in that says strategically I think wrestlers have an upper hand because they are used to those kind of games whereas in jiu-jitsu you wouldn't like wait the last 30 seconds to score you takedown necessarily your partner has scored earlier on I agree 100% what's up I think I think that I think that we got to come up with the rule set that like brings the best of both worlds like I've been talking about it for a long time I'm set down with every single promoter on the planet trying to convince them like man you wanna come over the best rule separate registers listen to the competitors the competitors know you know they never do that like very rarely to actually sit the competitors down and go what do you guys think is best right yeah no I think that's that you know but like I always dreamed of like you know creating a wrestling with submissions I know it sounds like all we have that way it needs to see like I mean there's so many things I would add to that rule I think we committed way more dynamic more entertaining and more more martial art oriented right so we're jiu-jitsu practitioners would make easily make a transition when the may if they ever wanted to write but everyone's got their own ideas I'm no exception to the rule we talked about it before I just always felt like the problem with the ADC rules it's it's it's very difficult to score yeah right and like the harder is a score the more likely you're going to go into overtime are you gonna get these long stalling matches whereas if you make it easier to score them points rack up and then there's more incentive to action because you're gonna be behind and you have to it you have to score back and I think the biggest thing is that the turtle loop below you know like any time some of the turtles and the gates of scoring position like you know you could take someone down they turtle for three seconds roll back nothing that I feel like if you took that away it changes a lot I think a second thing is out of bounds if someone goes out of bounds it should be like how they're doing it in wrestling now where they get a point for pushing you out of bounds because what's gonna happen now that means I can back away I have to stay in the middle and when people are closer takedowns can work a lot easier it's really hard to take someone down when they don't want to let you get close and when there's no penalty for going out of bounds it's like you have a very little chance of scoring on somebody unless they make a mistake you know and then may most of our takedowns occur in the cage it's because that's what you've run as far as you can and now you got stuck I I think just those two things makes a huge difference and you will see a lot of scoring happen if you took out that turtle loophole score out-of-bounds points I think that makes a big difference but without changing a lot fundamentally there's no two ways thanks what are you giving at one point where if you push your opponent outside that would be a huge difference yeah you imagine I mean you run people out of bounds something that's it you would be racking up points out there right right at the same time people Paul wouldn't let that happen they would have to try to stay closer and then you would probably take him down anyway it's but like it's much more satisfying I think from a spectator point of view you know see like oh this guy won by like four points or six points versus he won by advantage is like you know I think it doesn't injustice because I feel when we're scoring points ideas were supposed to be rewarding the guy who's pressing the action and doing technique was executing but when you don't score anything and you can leave to her advantage it looks like it was a quaint house you know so it doesn't reward that the competitor for taking the risks because every time you go for a technique is a risk you could fail and and go back mm-hmm that's true good very good suggestions guys unfortunately I gotta get going man I got a meeting in 10 minutes I gotta get ready for but thank you so much for the opportunity man we've been playing phone tag for a couple weeks now with this but I really wanted to pick your brain man I I wanted to congratulate on your career I've been a fan since I've known you you know you always been one of the the best competitors in the game and like thanks des said you know you couldn't make your argument years ago so man congratulations an amazing career you your students your team and you know you've been to the gym before but if you're ever back in the gym you're always gonna be welcome here and you know would love to have you joined the ATCC masters club thank you thank you it was a pleasure I feel so comfortable I feel so good here talk with you guys you know Roberts being a great friend for a long time you know I know honey for a long time and I thank you so much Robert I know like I was like little busy you know but then I say okay now let's let me do this and and fortunately I did you know I feel really good like after we talk here I feel really good about like everything that we mentioned here you know it was amazing to be with you guys David - thank you so much for for everything putting our talks right here and also it's amazing that thing I learned a lot you know after this meeting with all you guys and I appreciate everything you know I just appreciate like you the time that you guys reserved like just talked and into this interview I appreciate that I feel really good Thank You Andre you know just one last thing for you let the people know here where they can find you online and social media where they can learn more from about you yes they can find me on Otto's online so Atlas BJJ online.com right there we have over 3,500 techniques I'm putting like some courses right there and you guys can also find me on social media Galois vjj Facebook Instagram and Twitter most like Instagram right grant J so thank you so much and we have like we have great things coming you know so you guys will know soon and hopefully this can be great for the geez community I'm doing my best here still even though we were locked awesome thank you guys all right [Music]