BTG 46 - Logan Paul vs Floyd Mayweather

[Music] hey guys what's going on i'm david avlon here with my co-host robert drysdale for another edition of breaking the guard it's been a while i've had things going on rob's had a lot of things going on yes so uh yeah i guess for the people who are asking hands now without the cast i also look like i have a short sleeve yes yeah i'm just gonna say i just noticed that says something about rightly what you would have looked like with no hair yeah i know it's trippy because i remember when the lady was coming she said i'm sorry i'm like don't worry he's gonna come back oh yeah yeah when they took off the cats it's like the first time he actually seen it like this like man this is weird yeah like i always see myself as a darker brown but now i look like i have yellow yeah yeah the hair makes you look darker than you are yeah same with me um dude what else is going on man so wrist is feeling better grace is feeling good you give the training what a week two three no idea i have no idea so i'm like two weeks a little less than two weeks out from this they say four weeks i'm supposed to be a hundred percent so probably physical therapy right next year yeah i'm lifting weights now though and it hasn't really bothered it feels pretty much the same as it did before i'm hoping that improves otherwise i just threw a couple grand for no reason but uh yeah the main thing i wanted to get from this was range of motion like right now like you see this yeah yeah yeah 10 15. now but you're you're like what what two weeks from surgery after yeah two weeks yeah yeah probably another two three before you gain range of motion yeah i figured it could be worse it could be hurting or whatever so it's the right hand i need to wrist lock next time okay got it yeah that's the one i go for no you know it's funny i went i think the last time i trained there i went to royal marcelo completely destroyed me yeah and hubris locked me on this arm and then like knee-barred me on this leg i'm like so he knows who knows maybe i'm giving him intel on where your injuries are maybe he's listening to all our podcasts and then he just like takes notes i think jesus christ man that's a mercy oh man um dude what else man what's going on like there's there uh i feel like that the fight scene is um like i like literally right before uh we started uh recording on my phone and i see that logan paul was fighting floyd mayweather i'm like what the [ __ ] is happening to this world man it's all kind of [ __ ] it's i feel like i'm living in like you know that movie idiocracy yeah i feel like that's where i'm like that movie is like it was like a peek into the future everyone was joking it was supposed to be a comedy dude that was that was a documentary about the future it's pretty wild man it's kind of [ __ ] it's [ __ ] crazy i saw a clip also apparently of jake ball or i don't know which one's fighting jake or logan i can't tell another brother yeah one of them ended up pulling up to i guess where dillon dennis was oh i saw that he's throwing trash out of throwing trash that was funny but i thought it was funny because whatever they were both yeah yeah but i thought it was lame that he was calling him a [ __ ] and then he's plea peeling off of the car it's true the guy's chasing after you and he's like my foot it's like uh hello it's true i didn't notice that i was just laughing when i saw it that's a good point you don't get to call someone [ __ ] and then run away they even run away drove away yeah yeah it was pretty funny he did chase in the car too just made it look worse too it would have been like the opposite direction probably wouldn't been as funny but the fact that he's chasing him and of course of course he's not going to get to the car you know just made it so much worse but it's i don't know man like i think dana made a comment to like the state of boxing today is that and it's not just boxing though it's the ufc as well it's just not as bad they haven't gone to that point like ufc let's see and punk fighting they're like come on yeah you know so it's not like they're that different um it's i think it's important to keep the hierarchy man like you got to earn your spot in because you lose credibility yeah you sell tickets but you got to think longevity and this is why i don't get i'm going to get boring here this is just my opinions no one [ __ ] agrees with me which is fine but i admire judo because they have that vision of longevity that's why they keep it respect they keep the the structure they keep the hierarchy they keep the order they keep like certain things in place that perhaps sell less tickets hey but they've been around for 140 years man the most organized martial art on the planet yeah that's sad it's because i think that these these things have to do with how they the culture in the sport right i think that if ufc becomes two or boxing too pro wrestling oriented i think they'll sell tickets initially but they might they'll lose so much credibility that i don't know like 20 30 years from now i was gonna be around the thing is like a lot of these guys don't care because they're not thinking about the sport itself they're thinking about immediate profits like how am i you know i wonder some of these guys are ahead of the martial arts and and sports in general if they're thinking about the longevity of the sport it's are we going to be around 50 years from now versus thinking um what's best for me right now you know i i just i don't know like i love mma like i would hate for the ufc to lose credibility or i'm not that big of a boxing fan so i care less but i don't know i think that's it's it's a decision you have to make i'm not saying my way is better it's what i prefer i would like to see people have to earn their spot like the hard way not you know talk their way into doing [ __ ] i agree with you which is why i kind of like the pfl format where you know it's a tournament and then whoever wins the tournament now fights the reigning champ or becomes champ you know so i think that's nice because as you said everything's earned nobody was given a you can't be like oh like bro lester just jumped into the finals of the tournament you know i was like no like you have to start from the bottom and work your way up so i think that's great my only issue with pfl is the whole season thing kind of slows things down a lot you know yeah like like i have a guy jason who's got though he's got the combination the worst and best luck because he jumped into the pfl tournament he was going to fight lance palmer which we wanted that fight for him but then of course yeah they had to cancel and they had to cancel the whole season i'm like oh my god are you kidding so now it's like a whole another year you can't fight you know i know a bunch of the guys from pfl were pissed because i think lance himself wanted to be released because he wants to keep fighting yeah because he's he's a little bit older i think he's like thirty four wide he doesn't have a whole yeah this is an important year yeah yeah yeah these are the years that he needs to build you know yeah uh so yeah but besides that i do like the fact that the rankings mean something you know and the way they earn their rankings obviously winning tournament like the ufc has a ranking system but it doesn't really matter if they don't want it it's not respected yeah it's just like it's just there it's just like you know number seven and still fight for that i think the the model i mean ufc had a great model it was good it was as real as it gets i think joel silva came up with that one and then aca the chechen organization they have one that goes more fightless show and i like that because that's that's where my mind is i'm like i'm there for the fight not for the show if there are fireworks i don't care yeah like if there's a you know like a band playing before or after like you know countdown like i i don't watch count they're not interesting but like it's the fight that i'm after right but you know i think as a martial artist myself i from because like me and you it's easier to appreciate we can just watch the footwork and the striking and go oh [ __ ] that's a great fight you know what i'm saying we don't need i guess people that understand fighting don't need the hype but the average fan they don't see the fight all they see is the drama because it's an easier language yeah right understanding fighting is complex takes a lifetime for you to be able to appreciate someone's footwork or head movement for example you know that's a lot and that's you know that's one small aspect of the fight game like add the wrestling the hip tosses the the leg trips the graph i mean there's so many layers to this and then but the drama is something that you're you know i think people innately understand that it's almost one of those things that i don't think there's a single person on the planet that doesn't understand the the the the the novella aspect of things like that's why pro risk was so successful because it appeals to everyone that's why like guys like you know these these [ __ ] talkers get to sell 20 tickets because their audience is so much bigger than the audience of someone like khabib who is arguably pound for pound the best guy in history arguably you can make that case you know mgsp who else you know like he's up there right and but like they you know it's at it's never he's never going to be as appealing to the average fan as a guy like connor yeah just because they can't relate to it because it takes you you have to have a trained eye to appreciate how good he is whereas the [ __ ] talking anyone understands it's a language that everyone speaks in fact even if you didn't understand english if you just saw the people like that press conference the [ __ ] talking i bet you some people that don't understand english could be entertained just by watching the body language the tone of voice it probably like something's going on there what's happening they're gonna fight like if there's a build up there that every person on the planet can relate to yeah he could always understand like when something bad's going on just by the vibe but you could see like it's portrayed in alien movies also you see them right oh horror movies know that they they there's they that they know how to build up a momentum to to to scare you or you know you know it's coming you watch enough of i mean movies in general you know they're building up for for something you know i've been like in russia and i've heard people arguing i'm like i know there's something going on yeah if you can read the face oh yeah language and even just like you said the tones and you know that there's something going on and you're interested so like my a lot of my american friends when they hear me speak portuguese my brazilian friends like i heard this multiple times like rob it sounds to me like you guys are always arguing are you guys fighting he's like no we talk a lot of [ __ ] to each other and it it's it sounds real like we are insulting each other we really because you can you can tell that we're insulting each other even if you don't understand the language you know they're talking [ __ ] but it's in a friendly way just but you don't do it with a smile you do with a serious face which you know sometimes people think that it's you know they're not we're that we're serious but we're not but um yeah i mean that's funny man i think that body language says more than people realize tone of voice facial expressions i think that's a universal language everyone reads it's much harder to lie that way because oh yeah people are acquainted with lying with words yeah you know so they get they can say certain things but the way your hands move where they are you know what your eyes are doing what your face is doing yeah you know you could tell when someone is stressed like whereas like like if you see someone really mad their lips start to tremble and stuff like it's universal you know yeah or you start looking away or not making eye contact that's shame that you know that's other things going on people who put their hands like this it's a guarded pose you know like you're or you put your hands behind your back so there's several cues that you can read that it's really hard to defend against unless you're somebody who's like trained and even there's an arms race going on there there's um there's a social biologist named robert trevors and he and um i think it was one of his books that i that i he did maybe a point that there's a correlation in nature between how deceitful a specie is and brain size proportion to body weight right so the bigger the brain the better you are at lying right now guess who has pound for pound the biggest brain on the planet yeah we do of course right so a lot i mean a lot of his research goes like it's about deception right that the theory goes one of the reasons why the human brain evolved and it's because we've gotten so good at [ __ ] in ourselves first and foremost like he's one of his favorite books uh one of my favorite books that he writes is called the folly of fools i recommend that book to everyone because it talks about self-deception how you're first going to lie to yourself convince yourself i think as richard feynman has said that um easiest person to trick is yourself you lie to yourself first and then if you believe it if you assimilate that lie you can better lie to others right but like the idea goes brain is just one big bullshitting machine and other people have to develop detection methods in order you know to fare well against someone that's good at lying and there's an arms race going on right so um because ultimately you know we're just we're just looking for the same things any other animals looking for economics like survival and you know replication someone from the opposite sex there's a cartoon i saw i'd never forget this because this is so instructive it says it sums up like so much about sociology anthropology psychology you name it it goes there's a little you know little fish in the water and it's got little bubbles over its head and it goes it says it's thinking right it goes survive and replicate okay and then it's crawling out of the ocean and onto the land so it's like evolving right yeah it's bubbles and it is thinking survive and replicate and then it becomes like a little mammal and it's thinking right the little bubbles survive and replicate and then you get an ape and you go it says survive and replicate and then you get a human and it's sitting on the and it's sitting on a rock and it's got it's it's leaning on its fist like this and it's in deep thought and the bubbles say what is it all about right like if we become like so sophisticated in our thought that i think we lost track of you know what we're really all about and it comes down to that if you look at most of our behavior that's exactly what it is about survive one replication we're chasing you know members of the opposite sex all the time we're dressing nice because of that we want to buy a nice house because of that we want to drive a nice car because of that so a lot of the economics of what we do is about finding a mate that is of superior quality i mean women put up makeup not all it's because they want to look pretty i just want to hang out with my friends and then i could bull [ __ ] you don't spend two hours in front of a mirror getting your nails done and your eyelashes done all that just because you want to hang out with your friends and listen to music yeah you're trying to get a high-ranking male who are you kidding you know but they kid themselves right well you do that because i think it's almost like it's you have to because i think the truth is too hard to it's too hard of a pill to swallow so it's easier just to [ __ ] our way to ourselves so we can like oh no no i'm just really just having fun with my friends not you're chasing you're chasing mate there's nothing wrong with that's nature that's what we're doing so we worked so hard why why else would you not i mean why what is wrong with that of course you want a high ranking person of the opposite sex you know your children have a better chance of survival it makes perfect sense yeah we've just we've essentially transcended the food pyramid which every other animal has struggled to climb up which is great by the way yeah yeah can you imagine running from tigers every year like you have to come here yes we've gone a long way man if you had to come here to the podcast like oh guys i know like i pro there would probably not be a breaking the guard pocket as if i had to run from tigers every time i came here dude if i had to walk here i wouldn't do it and i'm not that far i'd like a problem like a 40-minute walk like it's not that bad you know like i don't think i've gotten too lazy but so we don't have that survival thing anymore it's now we've created like a social game that we have to play when it's completely foreign you know like we have like tens of hundreds of thousands of evolution years of evolution where we were struggling with the physical world yeah and that's pretty much gone now if you're living in you know modern society and now you're fighting this mental world where it's like politics and you know networking and that's when lying has become more important than ever now right because people have to try to deceive each other or see themselves so it's kind of crazy you know that's why like i think we talked about it before but we can find tribes that live much simpler lives and they work less yeah they work they're very content they don't have internet or video games or you know cars and stuff but they don't care about that type of stuff it's because they they're they've never seen it yeah because they're more grounded in survival replication it's a very simple to very we our life has become so sophisticated i don't think we're happier i don't say i want to go live in the jungle i'm not suggesting that i would not want to live as a hunter and gather i have a herniated disc on my lower back i cannot walk long distances i have zero desire to chase a gazelle down the african savannah to feed my children like i'm happy with the light but i think in overall i think those societies there was there was far less anxiety and depression social pressure suicide would have been something very uncommon i imagine you know i think it's the suicide i think what was like was it that social dilemma documentary like the the the rate of like teens and pre-teens committing suicide is through the roof like it's it's it's doubled in the last like 10 20 years or whatever the number is and that's that's a real pandemic man that to me is even more alarming i'm not i'm not saying that coronavirus is not a serious i think sometimes you say stuff it gives that impression i think it's a serious issue but i think there are worse things going on and they're just flying under the radar yeah like the fact that pre-teen like some of these kids come in suicide because they can make fun of at school like holy [ __ ] man i got made fun of more than anyone else you know i got a massive head i got a hole in my chest i grew up in brazil but zooms are brutal when it comes to like making fun of you like there's zero political correctness if you call your mom that's like the most embarrassing thing in the world man like you know i never it never occurred to me to commit suicide yeah but i i don't i think that it's it's there's something else going on here something that's changing [ __ ] i don't i'm not that old man but something has changed in the last 20 years i think people like when i was you know a kid as well i got bullied all the time because i was very shy overweight i remember every school year i would get into a fight yeah and pretty much that first fight set the tone for the rest of the year yeah because usually somebody would it determines your rank yeah yeah bigger rankings since i was a bigger kid i ended up winning every fight so after that fight nobody else like would fight me but they would still like oh you know little pot shots here and there and i was like you know but like i never thought to myself oh you know kill myself or do something like that it was i don't think i even had that awareness that was an option yeah it's funny no it's true it was like you never thought there was an option yeah you could be like sad or whatnot but it's not like oh i better kill myself like that wasn't something i think people know so much more now because of the internet and all this it's easier too and you watch movies and tv and stuff and all this stuff is out there like kids now they know that all about the crazy stuff people doing during sex and stuff and a lot of it's just from pornography which is not really realistic you're not gonna no no that's not it's not that easy man when i watch porn how easy they pick up like like the pizza guy walks in and the girls in the bikini hey you want to massage me like that never happens guys like it's so unrealistic but it raises the expectations well the problem with porn is that it creates an expectation about sex it's not [ __ ] real like like very few guys have dicks are that big to begin with you know like women are yeah they probably they're not that good and most women are not that good at it but it just raises everyone's expectation it's not just pornography it's not just sex like everything yeah the expect everyone is going to live in a mansion in hawaii everyone's going to have a yacht everyone's going to have you know the most beautiful wife the most beautiful husband and the expectations are so high like my grandpa you know people from that generation their expectation was to get by like you know not die too young and make sure your kids were healthy and fed and going to school and that was good enough yeah i i that's the thing with the internet is you know it we see the the best possible outcomes and it's magnified yeah you know so it's hard like you know when we're kids you compare yourself to whoever the neighborhood stud was you know like that's that's an achievable goal more than i said you know i can be as good as this guy or at least second you know yeah but when you see you have all these people you can see there's like 12 year old kids who are millionaires from selling something or youtube it's crazy man 40 year old guy jesus christ no and my grandpa like you know he died he was not rich when he died he was born in the court work in the cornfield when he was eight years old he wasn't rich when he died and these little shits they're little sh they're useless man i'm just watching these people like who looks and then i look at how many followers they have and i'm like who the [ __ ] are the people i look when these guys do crazy stuff like that to make money it's not me i wouldn't teach it i don't like it but there's a logic there there's a logic behind what they do because there is a reward right you get rewarded for acting like an idiot takeshi 69 whatever holy [ __ ] man like who the [ __ ] looks up to that guy but apparently a lot of people right and it works um but it's just one of those things where you know i wonder if they actually admire it or if it's one of those i think it was like talking to like keenan the other day they said something it's like a car crash rob they didn't admire it but everyone stops to look yeah and i'm like maybe that's what it is it's not a narration it is holy [ __ ] this is insane this is embarrassing this is crazy but i'll watch it for 30 seconds but that raises their profile right so it gives people the impression these people are actually more influential than they actually are which is a good point like i don't think that many people admire takisha 69 right or you know some of these with the logan paul's of the world right they're equally useless but it's it's it's so obnoxious it's so out of the norms it's so devoid of any value that everyone stops to look at like a car accident and then that boosts their profile so it gives sponsors it gives people the profession the perception that they're actually more influential than they actually are yeah it could be wrong it could be i i'm sure there's a segment that actually idolizes them which is to me the more troubling that's okay i'm being optimistic man you're but you're you're you're touching on like the pessimistic side of things that there are actually people out there that think that paris hilton is awesome you know and i'm like the [ __ ] are these people maybe i know them i don't know who they are maybe they're my friends and they just don't say anything because they hear me talking [ __ ] about them all the time whatever but um i don't know it's just i i'm just thinking about the logan paul flame floyd mayweather thing again um it is kind of funny that he called out conor mcgregor though that there's something about that though because that's how conor made his you know we're talking about that before the podcast he got on the fast track to title fight not be talented colin is a very good fighter don't get me wrong but had he not talked as much [ __ ] as he did there's no way he would have made it up there as quickly as he did challenging people calling them out and like you know trash talking jose they'll definitely put them on the fast track so i think it's very ironic that like the logan jake what the [ __ ] we're talking about here is is challenging him because it's exactly what he did to people and i i wonder how much of a it'll be interesting to see how big a pool that mayweather fight is because essentially you're banking on mayweather fans and logan paul fans or jake paul or whoever it was watching the fight i don't know the same person it blows my mind that that's an appeal you know like you said it's but you know what it it doesn't matter because if you ask like you know the average american who will buy that fight they don't understand fighting they've never it's to them it's just drama they're just watching it's like it's like it's a car accident man you're just watching something terrible happening but you're watching because you can't stop yourself from watching but i i don't know man like i i it's the there's a there's a two different um views on martial arts right there's what judo does and then there is show business yeah and i think i don't know if you got that part of my book it's towards the end but i we need to give some thought if it's possible to cre have the best of both worlds reward athletes and have you know have them being rewarded because it's a lot of work man like when i see other professional athletes working and i've seen i've been around them i've done conditioning with like football players and you know and it's hard in their own way but like i i i know i'm biased but i think fighting is harder physically i think other than like like triathletes are up there gymnasts you know like wrestlers of course you know but like it's one of the hardest you have to rank fighting top five hardest sports physically i'd imagine you know i mean i i think it's definitely up there i i think what makes fighting so difficult it's not besides the physicality of it which obviously there's a big element to that because it's the one sport where you're being rewarded for damaging your opponent that's how you win the fight yeah you know football you definitely take damage and you know there's other sports like apparently cheerleading a lot of people get yeah but the aim is not doing the damage right it just happens because it's yeah the damage both ways from what people do to you and what you do to yourself mma is a lot of that but also it's the technical skill yes it's so high so high i think it's higher than any other activity i agree you can do because there's so much variability you know like you're you could literally oh no you can almost do anything you want your body yeah might win the fight you know you want to do a cartwheel you can do a cartwheel it might not work but you could do it so like your range i mean a range of possibilities it's infinite it's almost infinite and i was watching last night i started watching that queen's gambit have you seen it it came highly recommended when people keep recommending the same thing i end up watching they're normally right if everyone's saying it's going it normally is except for tiger king that was that was like fast food you know sort of thing it's disgusting but it's delicious and you can't stop but it's disgusting you know it but like the queen's gum is pretty well done and but i'm almost i keep thinking of my chest analogy right which i make like i think fighting is far more complex in chess and people kind of look at you like chess is supposed to be because chess is two-dimensional at the end of the day it is a board and it's got 16 pieces and every six one of those 16 pieces has one move when you think about that compare that to human body and add the three-dimensional level and then you add the emotional stress yeah which is not the same i mean i'm sure that if you're gonna like if you're gonna you know play chess with kasparov you're probably going to be nervous or like with that computer that be defeated uh deep blue yeah it's like best chase play in the world that was a computer right which is great but um you know it's it's not as stressful as getting into a cage you know and then and then you get and then like you said technically man it's just layer after layer after layer like you could do a cardio it could potentially work it's not illegal it's my point you're saying like it's the the the it's it's a very the nuts what else biting yeah and then you can't ask your friends to help you even though sometimes that happens but you're not supposed to but like that's that's about it there are not a lot of limits on what we can do and it's it is very very primal in that sense but it's very it's a very open field of possibilities and i can't think of any sport that comes close to it in that regard and i think that's what makes it the most challenging that the physicality is certainly a part of it but the wide range of techniques makes it that there's every player has a unique style yeah right and it's going to be inherent and the other variability is everybody's body is different yeah like chest people yeah the same pieces yes you know the other one so a chest is fair in a sense uh you know we were both working with the same starting material yeah being white or black or whatever but and fighting is not it's yeah you know you got a guy like jon jones yeah you're gonna have a hard time and no 100 percent it's and you have you have certain anatomies they're very specific to certain sports like michael phelps is blessed like if you're really tall you're never going to be a good gymnast if you're really short you're never gonna play in the nba right like if you're six four in the nba you're like i mean i think that like like the shortest guys are like six four six five right like yeah like it's it's it's almost and it's super hard to get make it in it's it's you have like certain things about your anatomy they're very specific to certain spirits and not just on in the exterior on the on the inside too red blood cells the size of your heart testosterone levels like muscle density like kind of muscle fibers you have these things all impact your performance the harder to measure than what's on the outside but that's that's huge and in chess like it doesn't matter what kind of muscle fibers you have right like you know it doesn't impact the game in any way so it's purely based on your your mental abilities yes it's a purely intellectual logic you know intellectual i think to some degree it's emotional i mean there's always emotions involved in it because you're human yes and there's a lot of pressure reasons you want to win there's egos 100 i think i was i i remember reading uh about one of these chess players that essentially played like a certain type of mind game on his opponent by like i think they would he would move his you know hand around he i forgot there was something that he was doing that was throwing the guy off you know and he kept doing it and doing it and doing it to get in his head and distract him you know so like there's always a gainsmanship just like conor has that gamesmanship which obviously against the other fighter it worked out really well with khabib it worked in a sense where khabib was bothering it yeah you know it didn't work it just he did a good job and not letting it interfere with his performance right you know it definitely doesn't work people don't realize that type of pressure yes you can mess with someone's head yeah one more i'm sorry go ahead finish your point well i was gonna go like one more i just thought because i i just came back from yosemite right uh i had seen that documentary free solo which you haven't seen you should it's great is that alex yes and he climbs the whole thing without a rope and then i didn't know this it's not there have many different ways you can climb out captain right so i just learned this when i was there because i started talking one of the rock climbers right and he's explained no the one he climbed was over there this one right here is a dawn wall so there's another wall called the dawn ball that one no one had ever climbed before with or without a rope because that one is like like david i saw the wall i was there it's like this there's nothing to hold on to right and there's this one guy [ __ ] what's his name tommy tommy's something right and he loses this guy it's the documentary it's called the dawn wall it's on netflix you're gonna watch it bro like we're not doing another show unless you watch it don't tell you it's even better than free solo this guy loses a thumb oh jesus christ in an accident like doing like some whatever like you know work at home and lost the thumb whatever he gets better at it somehow like he learned how to use his other you know his index finger to to hold the little nub that was his thumb and somehow it made him be stronger he made it work in his favor right and one day he's thinking he went through a tough breakup or something like that he was just in that shitty place you know a dark place in life and he just looked at our cap and he said i'm gonna climb the dawn wall and then he started studying the wall he spent like five years studying the wall like every time he'd find a little something that could potentially hold his weight he'd take notes and five years studying that [ __ ] wall dave and then he got on to he met this other guy that was about as crazy as him and they said we're gonna climb it and they climbed it's it's surreal like how on earth it made me admire i i would never do it for a variety of reasons i'm kind of scared of heights i'm too heavy don't have the energy but i i i admire the sport i i can admire it because it's it's so symbolic of mountain right like yeah and and they i can't wish i could remember the quotes but when they're talking about the wall i could relate so much to it because what el cap was for him for tommy wasn't so much i think the wall itself i think he was so heartbroken he was such in a difficult place in his life like he needed something to um to keep in mind his mind busy right so what the el cap was symbolically to me like or climate dawn wall was it wasn't so much the fact that he climbed the wall but the fact that he found something to give his life meaning yeah i think that's the real finding and it was like it kind of resonates with my own experience with life because once again the medal is great but it goes away pretty quick i think it's the real treasure is the the fact that you found something that you're absolutely crazy about and you're willing to dedicate your life to pursue that that's the treasure that's why i always tell my students the hard work is the reward right because the real reward is the fact that you fell in love with something and i think it's almost one of those things and once you get to the top of it which they do um it's like oh [ __ ] that's when you lose it because you're celebrating you're happy yeah but now what you gotta find something else you're gonna do it again it's the same thing you've done it so now and when you have in and that guy has raised the bar so high for himself as far as climbing goes he's climbing the most difficult wall in the world like where do you go from there it's a difficult transition it's a difficult that's exactly what i'm saying so you know uh i think that it's almost one of those things where you it's almost like you're better off not climbing and just staying in a mindset of like i got to do it i got to do it because it's a better place to be than actually having accomplished it well that's the thing you have to figure out what's next for you right and like what is your purpose of in life what are you trying to achieve you know so for someone like him i i don't know his aspirations and whatnot but if he climbs to the top and he and he essentially done something that nobody else will that's hypothetically saying nobody else will ever be able to do it and there's nothing better to climb so essentially he's done with the sport of climbing right so for me the next progression would be well i better either get into something entirely different that's going to challenge me in new and unique ways or perhaps coach people on how to be able to do this because it's one thing for me to be able to do it but if i can get someone else to do it following my method it says that i'm not a fluke or it's not just something because i'm a gifted it's a combination of technique and skill that's transferable you know so that would be one way to channel it you know but there's always something you can turn into but it's it's just not the same thing right you know like as a competitor we have a lifespan you can only go so far before at a certain point like that's it yeah you won't be able to compete anymore you know not at least to the level that you're used to yeah so do you just stop doing everything and jump off the bridge and it's the suicide option because there's nothing more to achieve no because now we know about it now we know about it oh we have that option i didn't know that you you channel in other ways you know you write about everything you know we do podcasts you know yeah yeah so i think that's uh but that's like asking the guy tommy to like climb like a really small rock it's just not the same you know it's like i'm i'm sure he still gets a kick out of climbing anything don't get me wrong but once you climb the dawn wall like where the [ __ ] do you go from there man yeah that and that's why i think that that's the transition right yeah we have to learn that we're always changing you know people who who stay static are dead they're buried six feet under right those are the people that never change so you don't want to be that guy you got to be able to adapt and move around and do things differently and i think some people have a hard time letting go of that yeah you know like i mean you know god bless someone like mike tyson that he's still fighting but i mean at the same point it's kind of sad in a sense it's like you're you're trying to hold on to like former glory your life it's beautiful and it's sad at the same time you know it's a combination hollyfield not hollyfield uh roy jones yeah i mean it's amazing that they were able to do it and i didn't watch it but i heard it was actually i didn't watch it either fight you know but at the same time like i don't want to see either one of those guys get hurt you know yeah i mean obviously the chances increase yeah dramatically at that age you know so i would prefer to see them doing other things that yeah but then again i understand there's something nostalgic about them fighting there's something there's something about like i don't know man if i if i if you if you ask me this rob if you had if you could choose how you're gonna die right and you can choose like how would you i mean it sounds dramatic but i think i want to go out fighting i guess i'll be rolling him like i choked i don't know i'm gender i believe i think there's something romantic about the fact that he's still in love with that and and he enjoys the process of being in in combat and being in a struggle there's something very it's beautiful in the sense that you know that that that i believe that that fighting is one of the most beautiful things you can do i know he gets a bad rep but to me those people are very ignorant i think fighting i think that the human mind is one of nature's greatest representations like there's i can't think of anything that nature has created that we know of that is as complex and as beautiful as a human mind but i think fighting might be the mind's best expression like you know when i talk about fight i'm not talking about martial arts everything that is good has come from conflict and i'm not talking about armed conflict i'm not talking i'm not a i'm a i'm a passive i'm quasi always passive as i in general i don't like violence but when i say conflict i mean competition i'm trying to be you you be me that's how we get better like apple's in competition with samsung what happens better phones right like you know we were in competition with the soviet union what happened [ __ ] man we went to the moon we did land on the moon stop it please please for the flat earthers and you [ __ ] crazy conspiracy theorists you guys get to like i got a friend of mine trying to convince me that china is about to invade us through the canadian border [ __ ] man it's getting crazy bro but you know i i think that [ __ ] i get conspiracy theorists like lately has been like my peeve i've been actually like militant against them um but i was making a good point there dave what was it remind me yeah you lost me a little bit [ __ ] good sorry i'm trying to yeah i'm not like okay i'm thinking china going to canada i don't know i know and then there's more man it's just like every day every day there's something new and it's like everything they read is the truth and if they like it it's the truth i like it it's right you know it goes all wrong with my ideology so it must be true and like my recommendation is like man you gotta pick up that book of that guy that you hate that's the guy you gotta read you gotta read like you know you gotta read the mind camps man like you gotta read karl marx like you hate them okay great read them because that's the only thing that's gonna get you to snap out of fanaticism is when you see the other side and it might be even worse than what you thought but you're not going to know until you actually do the work otherwise you're just repeating what you've read on the internet or wikipedia or whatever news channel you watch and there's there's nothing that there's nothing productive that comes from just being locked into an echo chamber now and that's the current problem that we have with all this censorship and whatnot is going on and who's going to decide like that's it's gotten crazy but at the same time there's a lot of lying going on dave like a lot of these guys look i'm not i don't offend censorship i think that if people want to lie they should be able to but the problem is is most people because our educational system has gone to [ __ ] they are not equal i hate the song because it sounds so arrogant i say this and i'm not saying i'm not i'm immune to it i'm as vulnerable to this as any other human but i think at some point we all have to acknowledge that like skepticism is a good thing like we need to be more skilled we have to question things and we have to challenge ourselves you have to look at the other side what the other side has to say you have to it's the only way because otherwise you know the division we're witnessing in the country i think a lot of it has to do with the echo chambers which has been reinforced by social media and the the overconfidence in like my side is right without ever giving thought that maybe there's some holes in this discourse right or maybe the other side has a point i'll give you an example this is this has come up recently in conversation right the whole the term socialism right it's thrown around so much and i've come to the conclusion that the two sides when they're using that word they're not even talking about the same thing they're fiercely arguing about something that they don't even agree on they don't agree on what they're talking about because when like when like bernie sanders like which is a huge tactical mistake is using the word social i don't have no idea until this day why he would even use that word in his discourse because it said it was such a tactical error in my opinion and i'm no political expert but like why would you even in the united states out of all countries why would you want to resurrect that [ __ ] right but he's using the word but really what he's talking about is social democracy or mixed economies or you know the kinesian model economic which is something that has worked in the us in the past it's basically he's a new dealer largely speaking loosely speaking when conservatives hear the word socialism they're thinking marxism leninism which is something that no one wants but that's what they're hearing and they're fiercely arguing about something but they don't agree on what they're arguing about there's no agreement because there's no communication so you get one crowd going socialism when they're really saying like new deal they should be using just the new new deal that would be a better way of putting it and then you get the other guys who think that you know we're about to turn into the soviet union and they're convinced that we're like two steps away from becoming a new soviet union i'm like that is an insult to the victims of stalinism like you should do some reading with the stylist purges were like read what the cultural revolution was in china it's like space i i finished reading a good book on this it's called the rebellions and revolutions by jack gray it's great like it's companion of like it's a it's a summary of like chinese history but it does touch you know in some depth the cultural revolution there's none of that going on united states man it's like that was like a whole new level but it has been it has been construed in a way the discourse that it has convinced a large part segment of the population to believe that we're one step away from a communist revolution united states dude i've been to universities dave there are no marxists i'm sure you'll find one i i've never met one and you know i mean those two years you know i've never met a marxist like his whole thing has got blown so out of proportion i'm sure you'll like i said you will find one but it's not like they've taken over universities i was talking to danielle bolelli about this the other day and he's a university professor it's the same thing he's going to rob it's really not that bad like it's it's exact i mean you'll find one every now and then but they're just mostly like 22 years old their parents are paying for their college right you know they read the communist manifesto they got excited they want to be part of the revolution but they're not a lot of people and they're not powerful they're they make a lot of noise they may be breaking [ __ ] up i disagree with vandalism on every they think it's a horrible there's nothing good is going to come from vandalism i don't know what they're thinking but they're not powerful they're like hillbillies and [ __ ] god knows where you know talking about white supremacy and why you know pure race kkk you're annoying you're an idiot you're loud but you're not powerful yeah like the kkk is not powerful everyone's freaking out oh look at those they're they're powerless let's be frank they're just noisy loud obnoxious and stupid you know it's the same with a lot of these this radicalism that we're seeing on the american left it's like the whole politically correct crowd like i don't like them for a second i think they're they're more harmed the left and i mean [ __ ] man it's hard to think of compare like how much harm these guys have done at the left because they're so unreasonable you can't even they're fanatics and you can't reason with fanatics that's the one lesson i've learned about politics in the last few years in this country no that's kind of like debating religion you can't you can't even don't even bother it like you said uh you can't have an argument if you can't agree on a premise right thank you yeah that's but that's that's exactly my point like first thing i was watching i who did i send this i sent this to someone the other day it was a debate between um yanis verafakis who was like the the finance the the minister of financing in greece during the meltdown right it's a very bright very reasonable guy in john bolton and they're talking about world stability it's a great debate uh it's on youtube everyone should watch it and they spent the first like 30 minutes talking like completely different points like the moderator never thought it you know and at some point he brought that up he goes like yeah well you guys are have very very different perspectives here it's because they're not stability to them they didn't agree with stability was yeah so these guys are talking about apples and oranges and this goes on for the first 30 40 minutes and then they kind of start finding some common ground where they agreed and disagreed right and that was that's what a debate is we find out what we agree and don't disagree on and we spend a little more time talking about the disagreements hoping trying to hoping that trying to convince the other person or other people listening to change their minds of the first 30 minutes they're talking about nothing even remotely related because they don't agree on the premise yeah so that's a it's a non-starter it's a lot of wasted time there but i think we'll finish off with one last thing that i brought up uh which was uh i saw there's a tournament where there was a 14 year old green belt yeah i tell you yeah that tapped out three black belts in a row to win the tournament man i jumped in that open division then he beat a brown belt and then beat another black belt yeah and the absolute and i read that thing i'm like man something's going on here like i gotta watch this video and the kids built like a stunt like yeah for a 14 year old kid he's he's pretty jacked up but he was legit like he had good skills like particularly the first guy he was going against had him in some trouble and a rubber guard or whatnot he was playing he looked like he was good you know he played the part but then he tried to go into a leglock game and i gotta tell you that would have been a mistake young guy leg locks they're never going to tap yeah legs are going all over the place and he got reversed he got a inverted heel hook countered by the 14 year old kid and then he the other two guys he smoked he got one in the triangle choke really fast and then the other one oh no it was an arm bar it was a weird armor and then another one he got in the triangle i was like you know what it's uh what happens is well first of all when you're 14 you're very reckless and so you can get into a 50 50 and go to war very confident because you've never had your ankle blown before yeah like you get your ankles blown enough enough times you're like all right okay you went you know because you know something happens you become more uh what's the word not cautious but like you almost get deja vu of certain situations like wait a second i've been injured here before and then you hesitate right because you recognize the situation and that hesitation is deadly man like it's the end of your game like when you're young you don't have those traumas yeah so you just go you don't give a [ __ ] you're you know you're almighty two there's some really good green belts out there because we think green bells were thinking a little kid like for man some of these greenville's been trained they've been trained to just for 12 years like you know they're 17 know what like they can't be 17 but like 15 they can be so they might have been training for you know 11 years that's a long time man yeah and sometimes in the gym you know every day or twice a day and this one happens to be a mini giant too you said right he's like he's actually he must have been like a 40 or 50 150 pounder yeah but stocky like yeah he looked bigger than the the black belts he was going against like he looked better defined and so i was like damn this kid's like he got a good puberty he did jump you know i always said like everybody's at different stages or puberty that especially when you're teenagers like some people get to like what i call super boy status yeah or some people get to manhood like really early i know like i was super boy until i was like 18. yeah that was me i was yeah i was late and i i felt it because i went against guys who are men and the grip is the easy way of telling remember oh yeah that's the first thing you you know how strong somebody doesn't shake their hand like oh [ __ ] a really good wrestler and i lost him one to zero and three to two close matches but the time he beat me 1-0 we couldn't take each other down went to the second period he escaped got up he got at one point then we still made it on her feet third period i started bottom i couldn't get up he just grabbed my wrists and i couldn't break that guy's grip it was like a gorilla you know i just i felt because i was super boy and he was a grown man and this strength was just overwhelming me i remember i'll say that as a shame but i i tried to cheat my way to open the grip couldn't yeah you know wrestlers we do anything we can about yeah yeah i literally had my teeth you can't you can't i've seen guys like that i was like jesus christ like it was like me guys like that make me angry at my mom and dad for not giving me better genetics it's like why can't i be that strong you know yeah i'm real strong you know it's like this kid looks like he got the manhood thing earlier but uh he said i guess the coach think he was trained for four years yeah he was a four-year green bell and uh man got a blue belt on the podium yeah which i guess technically you're not supposed to get right i think you have to be sixteen yeah on ivs you have to get a poop up but i mean what do you say to a guy who just be tapped out three black bones and beat another one yeah you know and four different guys it's rough like i remember adcc there was a guy that didn't have like uh one of his legs or two of it i can't remember oh yeah remember and he was like he was built like like bigger than everyone would have been like six six if you had legs yes he was huge but because i have legs he was in the 99 kilo division and like at some point like it came up like oh they were messing with me and like oh you got them first round give me anyone like give me like i think the best the two best guys in division we're like shanji and bravo i'm like give me shut your probably first match but that guy because i it's just one of those things where you know like i as a combination of like i didn't want to win because i'd have felt i don't know it's it's kind of a rough one because you don't really want to lose either and that was really good you're kind of stuck you're going to get to seven my point is maybe not the best analogy i'm sorry if this sounds like a bad analogy but like the green belt is a scary thing to go against because you can't win oh i i know if you beat them up like whoa why'd you go so rough on that kid and then if you blink you get tapped like and then it's like whoa bro you lost to a you know 14 year old you know it's like training with with some of these women like they're so good like dude it's a shitty spot for a guy to be in it really is like you know i i normally train with women and i train because i believe in equality so much i i'm serious man like i don't go like why why would i mean look i don't hurt people you know i mean if i do it's an accident but like i don't get it too easy either like i might turn it down like a notch maybe and that's like and i'm violating my morals here i'm going against my ideals because i believe in equality but i i treat women on the mats exactly the same because like i don't want to get tapped yeah it hasn't happened since i was 16 when i first started trying but i i'd hate get tapped by by anyone for that matter but i don't know i i it's a shitty spot i know wrestling that was a thing too i remember i was fortunate because i wrestled once i started at 189 171 i finished often you don't find any girls wrestling that way in high school although i remember there was a tournament that they were saying there was one and rob i was nervous like i'm gonna have to fight big-ass girl right i don't know you're nervous i'm serious man you don't want to lose yeah i'm like oh no she's 160 oh thank god especially when you're a kid like 15 16 you lose to a girl oh dude that's it's embarrassing i'm sorry guys but it's embarrassing like there was a i remember i think it must have been like a 119 pounder he's wrestling this girl he's yeah he's handling her but then also the girl does a reversal and pins them with what's called a sound oh dude which life is over pins them with a club they call it saturnite ride which essentially used to rip my mouth yeah so the amount hips out so you know it looks even worse because of the you know whatever and he gets pinned and the father or the coach just berates his son right on the man's side oh man i see him oh it's like jesus christ it's like kid already knows right like he he's already having a terrible time and then like the kid ran out crying i'm like you can't it it's just a [ __ ] spot to be in man um i wasn't gonna say it i'll say like very impressive that that kid was able to do that and uh yeah it's it's gonna be more of a thing like you said because a lot of people don't realize like some of these kids i mean he started relatively late at 10 you know but like you're gonna have guys starting at four and five so there'll be a green belt like at 15. but really he's the black one black belt he's a black though yeah especially if the body of an adult too yeah i mean especially if he's been trained the whole time like there's a certain advantage to doing the sport that you're in during you know your maturing period because your body is kind of gears up okay this is what i do unless your brain is ready yeah you become better at learning yeah so like you got 10 years experience you're young and like you said pretty much fearless because you don't know what an injury is yet like that's not an option yeah yeah i just remind me like when i train with gabby gabby garcia he came over the gym once i'm not going to lie man there's a part of it goes like a game on you know let's get i told this story before but like my first jujitsu session i got tapped by a girl twice i'll never forget that i had a crush on her too but um you know it just it went to show me how how much this sport actually works right like that's that's a testament the fact that a 14 year old can beat up a grown man i'm i'm convinced like a lot of like the alpha male types of void jiu jitsu jiu jitsu i think brazilians like more than all martial arts really but it tends to draw a lot of the nerds i don't know if you noticed it's a very nerdy community these are the kids that tease in high school and they're like you know socially awkward like they it it doesn't draw a lot of the jocks there's all the jocks go to mma i think you know like the crowd is a little more nerdy and i think one thing why one is like that jock doesn't like up in the jutsu class is because there's a good chance he's gonna get tapped by the by the green belt and it's too much of a blow to his ego for sure to get tapped by a girl or you know 14 year old but i think that's the beauty of the r2 is that that those things are possible not many sports is something like that possible right there's that much of a discrepancy and i mean when they're very athletically oriented i mean like you know you couldn't get that in running yeah you know what i'm saying you're not going to be a nerdy runner and would technique be able to run faster than that then who's saying but it's just not going to happen right no one can run faster at the same though but like a grown runner like it's and in jiu jitsu you get the the big alpha male dominant looking guy get his ass kicked by a third dude i've seen him more times than i can count yeah it's got to be the shock for some of these guys yeah anything that's just a testament to the technique and skill level involved right we're talking to the beginning why the support is so difficult because of course if all things being equal they're both the same skill set then the other guy with a stronger body is going to do better you know but usually things are not equal and if you have somebody who's and usually smaller guys tend to be much more technical because they need to be yeah they don't have the strength or physicality to rely on yeah whereas you can get a big guy that could just squeeze you and not doing proper technique but he could tap you that way yeah so he can just squeeze he never has to prioritize being technical yeah you know he could just be big but when you're like a mikey museum like you need the technique but this is why i was talking to enzo once and and i always agree no one ever agrees when i say this point like he said like that i always say that and he goes jiu-jitsu is harder for a big guy yeah and everyone thinks he's crazy because he people think that you're just about winning jiu-jitsu is not about winning jiu-jitsu is about learning there's a difference it is harder to learn jujitsu when you're big and athletic it is easier to learn jujitsu because you suffer more because people think suffering is bad suffering is what makes you great you need it the more you suffer the more you the higher you rise like so someone who's small is in many ways privileged that's how you get good is by getting your ass kicked they don't realize it because it sucks yeah so you're under the impression that everything is going bad for you but if you're if you're if your goal is to feel good you shouldn't be in the gym you should be on facebook but if you want if your goal was to actually you know bring you know squeeze that as much juice as you can of your out of your youth and rise above and find out who you are and become a better version of yourself through suffering that's the matter there is no better place than the mats the greeks understood this fighters understand this i think a big chunk of the world doesn't get it you know and i really wish they did because this whole you know medal for participating [ __ ] it's got to stop me i think it's done so much harm the world like you gotta gotta let these kids suffer a little there's nothing wrong with that yeah i think that's a i sound like my grandpa i know but how do i feel about it i know man like my daughter's almost 10 just like [ __ ] like you know 10 more years and you know god knows pregnant or something i'm a grandpa [ __ ] [Laughter] i'll be a good grandpa yeah you would all right man dave i gotta get to class brother but uh this was fun we kind of went all over the place um yeah let's do this again like we've been a little inactive like we've been both really busy but uh we'll make this happen try to get back at one one a week yeah promise you guys thank you everyone and uh i'll see you guys again next time peace you