BTG 49 - Downed Knees and Eye Gouging

[Music] hey guys what's going on it's david avalon here my co-host robert drysdale for another episode of breaking the guard robert what's going on today uh not much man a lot of errands just telling dave i gotta start waking up early in the morning man not enough hours in the day i just love to sleep i'm not like you know i like to work too but i like to get my eight hours in you know i don't feel like i'm very functional with less than six like seven to eight is ideal i know people that sleep like four i'm like i don't know how you live man yeah i four is bare minimum but you could you could function but like you said like consecutive days i know you're going to get stringed out and i feel like people who sleep very little you'll see they get sick all the time yeah it messes up your immune system sleeping is the healthiest thing you can do yeah there's nothing healthier than sleep and it's just that you know you have that work ethic and you want to do it all but you also want to rest so i guess i'll get up earlier man like i'm just telling you like i run like crazy and then by the end of the day i haven't even gotten half of the things they do like they they come in faster than i can solve them it seems like you know yeah but yeah man um all good stuff other than that you know just good stuff good busy how about you yeah i was saying doing little projects and like you probably seen from the house i got like a giant dumpster full of concrete nice yeah i'm getting like a swim spot put it in the back there not nice of course there's hiccups everywhere you're like oh this guy is messed up and then i just always weigh more work than it sounds in theory theory is all everything is perfect as soon as you start doing stuff there's like all these things you don't even know you didn't know yeah so finally i'm like great that's gonna be extra two thousand extra brothers it goes quick i know i i just finished some construction at the house actually still got some construction going on it's it's a nightmare yeah but uh other than that going good but uh i know one of the things we wanted to start off with was talking about the past couple ufcs and i wrote a blog about it but since the past ufc's we've had like pretty flagrant fouls that are like i don't know it seems almost amateur level mistakes that some of these guys are making particularly with like peter yan uh in his title defense against aljamain sterling he's dominating his fight fourth round he looks like he's on his way to get a tko because he's throwing punches al jermaine drops to his knees trying to play the game where at least i won't get kicked or needed anymore and it's a very premeditated knee that uh jan throws because he's holding it he's like he's thinking of what to do i didn't see but didn't he ask his corner at some point if you could they said well according to the corner it's a pampa right and uh yeah yeah so he said he said punch punch right but then they were saying the the russian translator translator uh was also saying strike right so they don't know oh the translation got something got lost there yeah and then he fired that knee and it was clearly a an illegal knee according to the rules and uh again hard to say how her i mean he was already hurt yeah the whole point he dropped his knees because he couldn't take the punisher from his feet anymore like flushed knee to the head probably didn't help but at the same time could he have continued i i would think so it's shocking that a champion doesn't know the rules inside out it is it's like you know like a nfl football player and like not knowing what a touchdown is okay wait a second it's what you do for a living man you got to know these rules inside out that to me is shocking the other as far as the guy faking it which from all accounts it sounds like he did i kind of understand it like in his shoes it's easy for the outside to go you gotta do the right thing but like the difference to him is not only a belt it's also millions of dollars and potential for a rematch that's going to make him even more millions of dollars so i mean i i don't like it but i understand the dynamic of being in his shoes and making the call where it's going to grant you a title plus millions of dollars yeah you know and it's it's not like he his wrong was just acting more hurt than he actually was yeah but it's maybe he watches a lot of soccer would have been carried into stretching yeah but i mean yeah career-wise i could see that angle for sure obviously like he's going to get the rematch he gets the now extra sponsor money because he's all of it but apparently he was talking smack saying calling uh jan a paper champion which is very ironic because yeah he's literally a paper champion you know he won by uh technicality here's the thing that just helps them because now they're going to use that quote repeatedly yeah to build up even more hype like in the long run he benefits from this tremendously even if no one gives them any credibility or any credit for being a champion even if all like anyone who knows anything about the sport looks and that goes like i don't know about that title you know which has got to hurt him a little bit but it just opened so many other doors for him now like he's on the map like in a sense like he's you know i'm not in the sense where i'm usually a top contender something what i'm suggesting but i mean he goes in the hall of ufc champions now you can't take that away from him so i i can understand from his perspective even though as a fan i don't like it yeah especially when you contrast it to what happened with jon jones and anthony smith very similar type of situation i think it might have been a groin strike or whatnot that jon jones delivered and technically anthony smith could have won by dq and got the title and a victory over jon jones yeah but he chose to continue fighting you know and i remember people commented oh that's honorable and he's in he always said he would never stop no matter what you know like he's a real fighter so you have that guy and then you compare it to this situation like uh he there's a lot of street cred yeah but it does it but it doesn't matter like you know when when conor mcgregor throws a troll he had a bus you think that hurts him when he punches an old man at the bar do you think that hurts him oh it definitely helps him he steals a cell phone yeah what happens he gains like a million followers like it actually help it's crazy but it helps them all right so these guys understand this so it doesn't matter what you do as long as people remember you notice you like that's all that matters right so you can be as obnoxious as you could possibly think as you could behave and you're gonna get away with it but you know i i mean dana likes this i mean it doesn't make his champion look great but he knows he can build up a fight that between me and you was not the most exciting title fight in history of the ufc right right like they're not like top like known fan favorites right but now [ __ ] i want to watch that rematch you know i didn't see the first one but i want to watch the rematch it's the nature of show business man like it doesn't always go you know the warrior we like to think of the warrior who's going to go out there and do everything you know and be virtuous it's it's show business this is about money like it is money that drives everything in that industry so i can understand why he did it but you know i think the overall credibility of the sport because you don't want to like ufc is the opposite of soccer in the sense where you're supposed to be tough and i'll be faking [ __ ] yeah you know like it does hurt the sport a little bit because now people go with that and go oh you know like you guys do that too i thought you guys were the tough guys yeah you know and especially like apparently he left the the belt in the ring you know like oh he didn't deserve it but then later on they put a template picture and he's whatever again man i'd be happier in his shoes i'd be happy as [ __ ] i'm like i don't give a [ __ ] i i i'd be like okay i'm a champion you know i'm saying like he is he didn't throw the illegal knee that's what i'm saying he someone else did he just took advantage of the situation you know in my opinion in these type of positions no contest you shouldn't put well no contest might be one thing i think it's always hard to put that type of decision on the fighter you know like it's kind of like you're making the fighter like if i'm the coach i'm watching that i want to get the win for my fighter because my my goal is to keep my fighters safe and get the victory right so i would say no you can't continue but when you put that decision on the fighter you know you have the the part of it with your ego which is like oh i can still fight you know but at the same time it's like well i'm going to make a lot more money if i do if i don't yeah and you're putting him in a position where he shouldn't be that like he shouldn't be making those executive calls you know yeah he's literally just raw talent he just works you know the coach should be the one that would decide that for him and then that kind of shields the fighter from looking you know weak or you know or maybe making a foolish decision and they're saying oh i can't fight when you really shouldn't fight you know if you have guys that would probably like someone like anthony smith might continue to fight when he probably shouldn't you know he might be really messed up but he's just too proud it's kind of like it's like why the f the corner throws the tail throws the towel because he makes the call because some fighters just won't and i see what you're saying i you know the funny thing about this whole game is like i i might have made this analogy here or somewhere else recently before but like i've never been crazy about like ibjf advantages like i don't think there's an easy solution i understand why they do it i'm not going to hate on them either like i understand why they do it there's a logic behind it right but i've never it's always it's always like disappointing you see someone just like strategically winning an advantage and not really trying to do anything beyond that that's never fun to watch right no one likes that aspect it's just a difficult problem to solve because otherwise it turns into decisions all the time you get all these decisions decisions right i never liked advantages overall however did i use them to win yeah a hundred times every day if i if it came down i can't beat this guy i can't tap this guy but i really want to move on to the next round because i want a gold medal not a bronze medal i would use advantages to win you know so this is one of those things where it sounds like hypocrisy but it's when you're a competitor your objective is to win like you you hate the the the game not the player like the player is doing what he has been trained to do which is to win like if a soccer team is strategical or a football team for that matter is strategical and like you know not not opening up the game and locking it down because they're head on points that's strategy now the fans don't want to see it as a fan i don't like to see it but i understand why they're doing it like so i i don't i only partially condemn it like i understand these guys even though you know i have my my issues with show business as a whole but it is the nature of the game you can dislike it but that's those are the rules of the game yeah you know and that's this guy's trying to make it he wants to be a conor mcgregor he just took a step forward in that direction so from that perspective it was a huge win yeah and again the mistake was obviously yawns like i don't know why what was going through his head when he decided to throw that knee yeah which is then similar because in the next ufc you have eric anders who also almost a very similar situation round two dominant fight looks like he's on his way to tko his opponent the guys that gets the cage on the knee and then he's there punching and then just fires a knee to the head in his case it was ruled at no contest i guess because it's a two round it was a second round so it i forgot the rules cut off you know when a foul like ends a fight but it seemed like why like why are these fighters not understanding especially after such an example was made in their event previous you would think hey don't need a guy in the ground you know you don't like the commission they have these i really wish and i don't mean to [ __ ] on commissioners here but like i know they're trying their best but most of them don't have any fight experience yeah and it's it's kind of shocking when you have like a tournament a lot of times they move in attorneys into these positions they seem that attorneys just like they know everything about everything like no they don't i don't know you know but they put these guys in these positions of power and then they're making decisions on what's dangerous and what's not right i remember one of my fights in texas i had a bad ankle so i taped my ankle i just taped white tape and they're like nope and i'm like just care of curiosity why not it's just going to keep me safer in there i'm less likely to roll my ankle and fall right and his the commissioner's argument was the tape can cut your opponent's eye yeah and i'm going wait what i mean i'm about to walk in there into a sport where i can elbow him in the eye i can knee him in the eye but the tape is dangerous it's just like some of the art and a lot i remember like when there's amateur fights here i mean i don't think those still might be the rules here in fact for amateur fights no leg locks at all you know that yeah you can't foot lock people you can't leave more people i think in florida's is similar you can't do heel hooks where did this where does this logic come from you can knee him in the head but god forbid you go for a sure footlock you know it's that there's the hierarchy of risk and danger is something that they're completely unfamiliar with and jiu jitsu made that mistake so judo's made that mistake when they banned all these submissions i've argued this a million times and i'll stand by i i don't know the numbers but i'll be willing to put money on the fact that most injuries come from transitions and takedowns not submissions and i think that coincides with most experiences that grapplers have on the mats most of the injuries you're going to see don't come from you get an armbar think about your last five injuries was it you getting on board getting kimura getting full locked where do they come from it's the it's the passing it's the sweeping it's the scramble it's the takedown is you land it in a funny way so like i'm not suggesting we ban those things but i don't think submissions themselves are that dangerous in terms of risk for for practitioners i don't think i can't remember the last time i got injured from a submission like it's been i mean years really i can't even remember any occasion maybe one time i didn't believe in hill hooks when i first started training i thought it was a matter of flexibility i still pay it still hurts but like other than that like i can't really recall being injured by submission oh you're talking to someone who's been famously injured by okay man like that's a different okay like yeah is like okay he is every rule has its exceptions that guy is something else man but but i don't see that so much as the rules uh it's him it's him yeah that's what i'm saying it's nothing to do with the rules it's not it's it's the guy and i agree with you because besides that every other injury i've had was takedowns wrestling particularly the worst yeah i think that was all the worst man i actually believe this i think that time and experience has taught wrestlers and judokas that most of their training has to be live drilling over combat friction because i think if you wrestled 100 every day you have a very short career and i think wrestlers in general because over time coaches have understood that the best way to practice is to emphasize controlled live drilling and minimize live action like in pj it's the opposite there's very little live drilling there's a lot of action because there's less impact it's more controlled yeah you're starting on the ground on the ground yeah you know so it's a lot easier it's like striking yeah if you did full sparring every day you end up you know like a hundred percent with uh a tbi or whatnot yeah like bjj is unique in that way or you know ground nuanza ground fighting for that matter because the impact is not there and everyone's terrified of the submissions you know but again even heel hooks but i teach white white belts at the gym i teach them hooks yeah we do too i always have everyone that thinks i'm crazy i'm like why you teach them how to tap i have been doing this for years dave i can't recall the last time anyone's been injured from a hook in the gym i mean i'm sure it has happened i can't recall but it's not something that happens not even once a year right you know it's very easy if like you said you introduce it early anytime hey look this is a heel hook very dangerous position yes when you apply it you go very slow if you're the guy getting caught with it you tap very fast you know and if you're cranking it and the guy's not respecting it just let go of it there's just training yeah so like all that pre-framing makes it very hard for people to screw up correct what i mean so but if you let them find on their own it's like kids with drugs you never give that talk and yeah exactly they're gonna do their own exploration and you know they're gonna get messed up you know like you set up all the rules let them know the expectations they're much better informed to make a smart decision a big part of it too dave is having good culture in the gym so if you have good culture in the gym like for example you walk in there and you feel like you're in an environment no one wants to hurt you because everyone likes you it has to it's it's hard to explain but that's probably the most the greatest asset any gym has is the culture yeah it's not how good your instructor is or how many medals he has on the wall but you walk into a place and you feel that you belong there you're at home i like these people i know that if i pass out here like no one's gonna you know no one's gonna keep they're all gonna stop everyone's gonna stop trying to you know take care of me like i know that if i get injured there are five people in this room that will volunteer to drive into a hospital right you see what i'm saying like it's that kind of level of trust that it's got because i've been to gyms where it's very hostile not only for me as a visitor but even amongst themselves there's not especially these especially mma gyms they don't have that same camaraderie and i've experienced this up close it's very individualistic clicky you have these like people going at it like i'm not going to mention names here but i've seen guys spar like that could have been like a ufc title fight yeah they could have been and they're going at it like trying to knock each other out and sparring and i'm going dude like you guys got you know you got to get hurt in there but it's just not healthy i've seen guys sparring and getting ready for ufc like two weeks out yeah and they're sparring guy drops to his knees he's soccer kicks the guy in the head knocks him out yeah the guy that was gonna find the ufc yeah i'm looking i'm like first of all what the hell it's like oh he's like oh i just got caught up in the moment i'm like what moment street fight yeah you can't do this anywhere you know like what the hell man you know but like that just goes to show you it's like kind of like you know a dog eat dog training environment like everybody's out for themselves and they're trying to prove stuff it's like yeah like that's the one thing i always tell people when they ask me where should i train your babies i go to rob's man because it's like a it's a family environment everybody i don't feel anybody's out to try to kill me yeah you know like you said like you can tell like people are all close together nobody wants to hurt me you know that's a good place to learn yeah you said you you can do a trust fall and someone's going to pick you up yes yeah and and if you're an environment it's hard to create that environment because you have to you have to lose the bad you have to like put the like this is what i tell gym owners because like you know my affiliates they call me sometimes they're having problems with their students right or when i go to just a seminar at the gym oh hey rob you've been doing this all along with me what'd you do in this situation and i've made every mistake you could possibly make so like you know i don't mind like you know giving my two cents on what i would do because i've lived that situation before and it normally comes down to be willing to cut out rotten branches yeah there's some people that don't belong they're going to try to change the culture they're going to expect i mean maybe fighters are the worst because they come in with a different different mindset they don't come in as like i'm a member of a team they walk in i'm a ufc superstar it's a very different approach and they walk in they try to change the culture they want to walk around their shirts off barefoot spit in the garbage you know if they bleed they have tape everywhere their gears all over the place they don't wash their [ __ ] dude i don't like that i put the hammer down just the other day i'm not going to ufc fighter like it has gear all over the gym like hey can you put that away in the cubbies and he just looked at me like it's the first time he was told that yeah i think he hasn't heard that since he was in high school i think i'm gonna make you please please put your gear in the cupboards and he looked at me but i think it sends a message like you're not the boss here bro i know you're a big time champion i know you're a badass but in here different if you're willing to do that to like your best students because it always the ones that are going to challenge the culture in the gym they're not the white belts yeah it's your purple belt it's your brown but they're the ones that are going to challenge the culture they're going to try to change it to their own benefit and as long as you're willing to like confront that and like hold the line two things happen that [ __ ] guy the guy's trying to hurt people that brings bad culture it talks [ __ ] it is disrespectful is that gonna change and jujitsu is gonna save him or he's gonna leave yeah you know it's it's and i think that's exactly what has to happen you just gotta be willing to weed out if and i used to be like i'm going to lose you know x amount of dollars per month if i do that it's like you know what the peace of mind yeah yes and that over a long time i gained yeah not only that there's like getting rid of like stress is something like i value peace of mind way more than money for sure no no if i'm happy and like if i'm happy inside i'm not stressed out like life is just so much better but it's even financially that's short-term gain right because like i'm i'm gonna make extra money off this one guy but that guy's gonna end up poisoning a lot of other people because once what it's like kids you know kids always test boundaries right and they're gonna see like how far they can get away with things and if you don't put your foot down like oh okay i can go all the way here that means i can try to go here now and i'll keep going and going and if you never discipline your kids they're going to run running all over you i mean but once you start putting your foot down they're like oh okay this is a line it's a hard line i can't cross that line and everybody else if they're watching you have other kids like oh i can't cross that line i saw the beating that he got you know you got to do the same thing with your your culture you know because we're animals we all are trying to challenge you know lying happens to lions you know young lion comes into a new pride there's a fight who's gonna who's gonna run this show you know i can order yeah and you know unfortunately as jim owner you're the headline yeah and there's gonna be young males coming in trying to see what they can get away with every day every day yeah you got to check them you know and it's kind of like man well i didn't sign up for this like you kind of did you just didn't know you didn't know you were unaware it's in the fight bridge what's gonna say it's in between the lines you didn't see it yeah you're gonna have people challenge matching you and all sorts of goofy stuff that you're gonna put your foot down but you make though once you get used to it it becomes a lot easier you know but like for especially when you're a new gym owner and you come into like oh i want to help people and you know i want to be cool with everybody but then like that attitude to somebody who's like you know like a dick or whatnot they're going to see that weakness they're like oh yeah that means immature people this is like this is i i find that the people i have the easiest time working with like if i want to hire them or do kind of business with them or give me any kind of responsibility in the gym they've always been people that have a family and a career jobs they've been kicked in the teeth in life yeah you know you've had a shitty job so you can appreciate a good job right you can tell the difference it's like anything you have that you see the bad and then you really appreciate the good right but you give opportunity to someone who's never had a real job and it goes straight from their parents house into your house sometimes or like you know just teaching jiu jitsu and live in the jiu jitsu lifestyle whatever that means you know it's they come with a lot of expectations they think they made it like i guess some of these brazilian kids that i brought over in the past and they had zero work ethic like some of them were good like but the majority were like absolutely horrible and they have this mentality that they're in the us i made it in life no no you got to work just the same yeah the difference is you're going to be more rewarded here than you would have in brazil that's the only difference exactly you got to work just the same but like the mindset is kind of like i made it so immediately they're kind of like and then when they don't get everything they were expecting easily they're kind of like you know frustrated and it's a very common theme most fighters because very few of them want to have like a job and train which is what everyone did that's what you did that's what i did like i never had like i'm just going to train full time and do nothing i'm like no i always had a job yeah i always worked i was i was a teaching class i was doing something else i've always had work on top of going to college on top of training like you know when i went abcc i was going to college i was working i was running a gym and i was training like and i did dude my days were like 12 15 hours day long like that was normal yeah you know but you get some of these the the the i hate being the old man here but like there's no way around it yeah they're just very untitled they think it's easy you don't i had people complaining about driving 30 minutes of practice that's too far like they're so upset they kind of got a car bro yeah you know what i'm saying like you got a car like you're living in like amazing infrastructure of las vegas you got a vehicle gas is dirt cheap you're 30 minutes away each way come on man yeah but people complain when i opened my gym i mean same situation as you i was going to college full-time i would teach at the gym and i would be trying to train at the same time and at a certain point i was working in the power plant or whatever it was like i was juggling all these things and i lived in fort lauderdale when my gym was in miami which was like an hour away you know and then that's with no traffic and that's my own gym yeah but me and my brother were doing like probably like three four hours of driving a day just back and forth you know so yeah it's funny like that's why when when i moved here and you were telling me people complained like oh god dude timmy had no idea no i know i know i had one kid like he was um he was staying with me and he wouldn't walk to the gym you see my house at the gym it's it's a 15-minute walk yeah not a drive it's a 50-minute walk you cross a beautiful park it's there's no like it's not dangerous it's not like it can be hot in the summer cold in the winter you know how many times i've done that walk sometimes i want to walk to the gym i take my shirt off i get a tan i just walk to jump on my headphones on listen to music it's gonna be a little bit less than a mile i think right yeah it's it's it's a 15-minute walk if you're walking at a normal pace i had this one kid in like early 20s just like oh no i'm not going to do it you have to drive him to the gym otherwise he wouldn't show up i'm not making this up man like i'm dead serious i know it's crazy you think as a young fighter like that's your warm-up you run through 100 i'd be like what like it's it's if i had to walk two hours due to practice i'd do it man like you couldn't i was not going to get stopped by that yeah now you got to drive him i need a ride it reminds me of my dad used to tell a joke uh he's from venezuela and you said like when people are in venezuela they hear about america it's like a land of milk honey there's just there's literally money on the street yeah so this guy from venezuela comes lands in miami and he gets out of the airport and he sees a hundred dollar building floor and he's like uh my back hurts i'll start picking up the money tomorrow [Laughter] yeah i think it's kind of like that what are you talking about yeah it's it's not too far off it's a mindset uh but here's the thing though i think that when you eventually you learn i think that's a youth thing more than anything you you you jiu jitsu what it doesn't it prolongs your teens and i think it did that to me in some ways too like while i was fighting i was probably my early 20s 25 and i was far less responsible and far more entitled that even though i was doing all these things i think that you once you get kicked in the teeth in life it's like you realize how hard it can be like you actually have a lot of bills to paint you got responsibilities that's when you go oh okay i had it easy i didn't realize it yeah you know it's like because you know you go for your parents house straight into you know the jiu jitsu world and because if you're good you can get away with it you know i always say like the two professions you can be irresponsible and successful at the same time you can be musician and martial artists you can be incredibly irresponsible and incredibly successful at the same time with no contradiction there are not many other professions or not just fighters but like professional athletes in general yeah if you're very good at basketball it doesn't matter how immature you are you're gonna get by just fine until eventually you retire and then you go like oh [ __ ] i got to manage all this money i made and you have no experience doing it hence professional athletes all being broke two years after retirement right even when they make millions it's just like winning the lottery for a lot of people yeah zero idea how to manage it and you know when were talking about like having to mature through these hard lessons like we had my brother was telling me something similar that happened to our gym where we had a young i think as a teen good kid a very good uh talent but he just didn't want to listen to the rules and he was a little reckless with the way he was sparring and he was worn several times didn't seem to care and then we ultimately had to kick him out of the gym and then he ended up he was crying and he was all apologetic or whatnot and the takeaway i got was look it was unfortunate but if you would have kept them on you wouldn't have learned the lesson yeah you know so like you know this is kind of like he had to learn this lesson the hard way and hopefully you know he does so wherever jimmy goes to next he comes with his head right yeah you know but like you in that situation like the relationship was too sour to come back from i mean like they need to he needed to learn you can't recover from it and and this is where like i've changed a lot over the years because you grow up your whole life and you're told right i'm not very religious but i i grew up in a religious environment so either that or it's my nature whatever the case or you know the people around me what my parents taught me but i've always believed that compassion was always the right thing to do always being compassionate with people i don't believe that anymore i think sometimes the right thing to do is to be selfish and tell people to [ __ ] off sometimes it depends like there's there's time i'm not saying suggestions you should never be compassionate like i'm like there's you go case by case there's a balance there because when you help too much you're actually not helping that's why i tell my students in class like when you're when you're if i for example if you're a whiteboard i'm a blue belt and i take it easy on you and i don't make you tap because i know it's going to hurt your feelings am i helping you you know you're not you know what you know how i help you i beat the crap out of that that's how you help you you make them tap as many times as you can you know and that we you know it just and okay maybe okay you're gonna quit then like it's not for you then it's not for you don't have the metal that it takes to be in there and if you don't that's fine you gotta go find something else then don't waste your time doing something you're not meant to be doing but if you do have them out if you are qualified for this this is what you're meant to be doing you're going to be appreciative of the fact yeah you're asking you can come back stronger the next day it's that simple so sometimes like firing someone is the right thing to do it actually helps them because it sets them on a whole new course of action where they're going to find their real passion they're going to find what they're meant to be doing they're going to find what they're good at and if they're passionate about it they're not going to get fired because they're going to do a good job so i'm less empathetic towards these things i used to be like very tolerant yeah i've changed a lot over the years because i i find it really is a balance you're not helping when you think you're helping no i think that's exactly the point like even though it might not be seen as help in short term or not compassionate it actually is it actually is that's why i was telling my brother like you we did you did the best thing you could for this kid because if you would have kept them around and tolerated the behavior you'd never learn he would have been he would have got probably worse yeah because you know he can get away with it and he needed to put him in his place and although it sucks short term long term hopefully he gains and learns from it otherwise like you said he just wasn't put out for it and it's you know it's kind of like people who like who linger in a relationship too long that's already been dead you know but like they're just afraid of the pain yeah the break but you need you need to break you know if it's if everything's very tumultuous it's just somebody has to be brave enough to go okay in a society where like we are constantly trying to avoid pain and suffering but we forget that that's how you become strong like nietzsche would always say he believed in purposeful suffering like he didn't believe in like you know causing pain for no purpose yeah but if i cause you pain and that makes you better i'm helping you yeah and that it has a purpose like so when you when a when a dad like makes his 18 year old son kind of get a job and pay him his own build and doesn't buy him a car he's actually doing him a huge favor you know like i know right we're very wealthy people and they don't give their kids [ __ ] i'm like that's a good dad right there and you see the wealthy parent that gives their kids way too much i'm like ah you're not helping you're not help you're preventing them from learning a lesson it's what i call that the culture of the participation yeah the participation metal culture yeah right you you reward people for being there you're my son here you go right oh you showed up to compete good job and you just destroy the competitive culture which is primal it's it's necessary you need competition it's good you know it breeds excellence um i just don't when i see people out but like little john is crying i'm like let him cry man left so what yeah that i cried too when i was a kid so what you know no one's ever died from like being upset because they lost a tournament lose your soccer game like you gotta give them a medal for that how are you actually preventing them from getting better it's the opposite of helping yeah like if i feel like if you're someone let's say you were talking about a very wealthy person it was a self-made you know a millionaire whatever the path that you went on was probably difficult but it had to be in order for you to get what you are so if you don't give your child the similar path you know yeah they're not going to get similar results they're going gonna have to live off whatever you have and then [ __ ] off yeah like you're not doing it my favor you know you gotta that's right like i i think uh oh trump in his book uh he talks about little stories about his sons and whatnot and he had them negotiating chores and the rates they were getting towards it was kind of funny because i guess it was like they were they were setting a fair a price for cutting the lawn and it was like like 20 bucks or something like that and then one of the brothers found out that the other brother was getting paid 40 right and he was like dad what the hell he's like he negotiated he just took what i gave you yeah and he's like sabbath great lesson yeah you have to negotiate everything you know but like he's a business man but that's the path and you know in the long run in the long run you know you actually you they would appreciate it because he lost twenty dollars but he learned a life lesson oh yeah i guess i was talking to someone the other day and you know like she was telling me that like when her kids left the toys out the rule was you gotta throw one of them away so every time hey man it would work because i guarantee you through one of my daughter's lol dolls away one they would never leave their [ __ ] on the ground because like it's a collection man like they collect those little things they're expensive too but yeah man they um it's it's i actually think it's a good lesson like my my uncle he's a really hardcore guy he's one of those like it reminds me of clintus wood in that movie uh gran torino just like that's you know he was that guy right so he bought my two cousins an atari when they were like eight and nine years old whatever it was like 80s right that target was like that's that was yes that was legit right and day one there's only one remote control so day one of course they're fighting over it's my turn right dude he picked that thing up and threw it out the window it was brand new and no kid had an atari he's one of those he threw it out there especially in brazil it was a bit hard oh yeah oh yeah that was a big deal he threw it out the window done my cousins were like dude like it but it was like one of those scars that you never really fully heal from because you're gonna hate your dad before doing that but i think it teaches sometimes like you need that that hard lesson to learn you know and they they and then at the end you appreciate those things i think you look back and you go you know what i missed out on hours of playing with an atari but i got something more valuable from it so i don't think there's anything wrong with a little you know struggle pain and suffering i think that's part of the journey they typically come in equal measure too that's my other thing i think that you know you're going to get something really good and there's like another site that's going to be really hard you're going to pay a really high cost for that right and just the way that's what makes it valuable to imagine people just handed you a black bill what would be the merit you know like everyone's a world champion there you go everyone's a world champion like if everyone's a world champion what's the point of being a world champion you know it kind of it blows the whole purpose of it being meaningful right i think goes for everything yeah i agree with you and uh circling back i want to get to that uh back to the knees because you're talking about one thing which was funny which is it was before podcasts you were saying how they always pick lawyers to the commission yeah to get out of the commission so to me the rule that down need because we have two guys who get dequeued in one week you know it's foolish in my opinion right if you think about a knee well what's the point of putting the the role is because it's supposed to be more dangerous yeah i that's i'm with you it's not more dangerous yep the head is approximately around the same height if not lower than if you had him in a clinch yeah and i would argue you have less leverage yeah on your when you're sprawled over the guy trying to throw a knee 100 because your hips are way back your weight's not even pop versus standing where you can brace against the guy and throw it into like you're not going to throw a knee with more force than you are from standing i agree so why did we have that role in the first place so this is where ibjf and the ufc and the commission and every other organization it's not hard you get a professional multi-fighter with a good knee and you measure the power standing and you measure the same thing on the ground you tell me which one's stronger i'll guarantee you that his knees gonna be stronger standing because there's way more leverage yeah there's way more mechanics involved on the ground even like some of the stuff that's illegal on the ground like i can understand like you know 12 to 6 on the back of the neck being dangerous but in some positions it's like it's not going to hurt them depending on where you hit them but they always make it yeah right if i hit in the arm it doesn't hurt you yeah you know but they make it illegal yeah exactly but they have all these things that they haven't thought through like i honestly think they make rules based off of prejudice off of what they think is happening but because they lack the know-how either because they've done no research in a sense of let's collect some data here and find out what's happening versus or you know i actually been in the gym my whole life i know what's happening right one of the between those two things between people that can actually put together statistics and people have been the gym their whole lives i think you come up with an intelligent decision yeah intelligence and they have the tools to measure that they have it yeah so like the other one i would talk about is the down kicks i don't think the the one kick that people say oh the soccer kick when the guy's down i'm like i would like to measure that yeah let's get a soccer kick measure it the the force generated versus a roundhouse kick i agree or a front kick to the head you know we both have knocked out plenty of people i i bet you it's comfortable you know what i mean and i think the other thing is that people right now like for example i was remain sterling dropped to his knees because he knew he would be safer because he knew if he was standing he was going to take more punishment because there's more leverage on the strikes we know that right so you went to the knees it's easier to manage the damage from there right but if you knew that a guy could knee you or soccer kick you are you going to stay in your forest no way you're gonna go to your guard which is what we used to do right in a real street fight situation i'm not gonna sit in turtle yeah and let you suck and kick me yeah it's very easy to avoid yeah i just roll over yeah but people don't want to do it unless you're out already in that case the referee should have stopped it already anyway yeah you're already done you know what i mean but like if you're biting your time like alderman was clearly biting his time yeah he got i think he got hit with uppercut and whatnot he dropped to his fours and he had his hands down and he was kind of like covering so it again in the framework of the rules smart right but like we're moving away from to me what the spirit of a fight is yes like this is supposed to be more and it's not making it safer it's not really making it any safer you know you're just dragging on the beating if anything you know like in a real street fight situation if you got hurt the smart thing to do would be pull guard yeah you because you're keeping your head as far as you can and now at least you have your most powerful limbs your legs just help try to manage this yeah the other one too is you know it makes no sense and i have never had a good argument uh against it is that people can't kick from the guard for underneath yeah i'm like it's less power it's way less power than the standing kick it's way less dangerous like why would the really dangerous kick you know because the power's at the end of the kick yeah you load up your hips you load it up and then you fire and at the end at the very end of that level that's where it's going to hurt the most right you don't even generate nearly that much power from the ground i'd kick you from the ground i'd be able to land a kick it would hurt but it wouldn't i mean yeah you could possibly knock them out but it's not it's the only one i could think of hanzo with the olympic tournament and that was just a perfect shot yesterday but i i here's the thing you could make an argument this could be an argument i think there would be not a lot of passing because people on top may not want to engage too much so when they hit the ground people might create that longer range right away and there'd be less me trying to pass because the guy kicking from the bottom would force the guy either to get really close or really far well actually that just brings a point because that kick was legal because he was standing yeah but if he goes on his knees it isn't legal but wait is he generating any more force no it's less no it's less it's less power yeah that's why it makes no sense but the only thing you can say is that it would make there would be less grappling because of that because the top guy is either if he's skilled he's going to move forward to shorten the distance if he's unskilled which is unfortunately the majority of people if you don't know how to pass yeah they're going to back out and then when they back out they're going to that's that's going to end the ground fight right so you could make okay it's going to be less interesting because there's less grappling i guess you could make that i think but dana would probably like that yes yeah he probably would but as far as risk goes i can't see how that kick is more powerful than the one he is standing or when they're kickboxing yeah because they're not even close no no that's one of the weaker kicks you know especially when the guys on the ground so like those rules to me i think they should be all gone i i think down kicks down knees up kicks all should be good they're not there's no they're not more force than any of them than the equivalence of standing you're no one that i'm sorry go ahead but uh on the other side of i think the rules for example eye gouging need to be reworked as far as the the penalties that we're not we had leon edwards who i gouged bella mohammed multiple times until unfortunately he like i told you it was like a fish hook in the eye like he literally i gouged him and then the finger got into the bottom lid and ripped you know that ended the fight you know and there was a no contest but people like oh the gloves had to be reshaped that was not and i'm like in my mind no it's the fighter that's doing this yeah if you because he was warned in between rounds hey keep your fingers down you know because he's fighting like this you know so and he's measuring a lot and you know who's another fighter that does that jon jones yeah and i remember in my top my head like he's probably had at least a dozen right and then when i googled he goes top 10 uh eye gouges from jon jones oh my god this is just a top 10. he's got he's got he's got a category just for himself he's in his own league i'm like so you're saying like look i get accidents happen right and sometimes you're clinching oh yeah it happens a lot it's not right and you're headbutt right or you know you you throwing an inside kick you graze the guy's nuts it happens but like if you have a top 10 highlight wheel of your eye gouges you're fighting like an [ __ ] right yeah it's it's it's a method it's no longer an action and they have all the highlight videos and you see he's doing the same thing every time yeah and he's using it like he's pushing off the guy's head like no yeah you're gonna eye gauge of course you are it's a matter of time yeah it's just a matter of time you know like and really there's no tactical advantage to doing this except to eye gouging yes because really you don't want to jam your finger to someone's head like this forehead no yeah you you know you're more likely to look you're targeting that 100 yeah and and what drives me crazy about like these rules too some of it is just so [ __ ] it's like when the guy like same thing i gouging or holding defense yeah they know it's illegal yeah like you don't get a warning like what do you mean a warning you didn't know it was illegal like you're suppo you're professional you're supposed to know what the rules are you hold on the fence what the message you send out you go you're telling them that you can hold on defense once and get away with that exactly and you don't think they know this you think they're stupid like i swear to commission sometimes like this the rules they make make no sense you don't take you take a point right away in the story and you'll see it's gonna stop the eye gouging thing they get away with it because they get warned the first time and it's not an accident because like i said you can tell there's sometimes there are accidents right but when you have somebody like him when you see the stance like this yeah no i know it's gonna happen it's just a matter of time maybe not this fight but it's going to happen you know just by the way you're putting your hands like and your open hands maybe here like when i'm like catching or it's perfectly fine but like my impact yeah when i'm reaching like this why i'm reaching with my hands open no if so i think that's bs and then the cage grabbing thing people like oh it just happens accidentally dude rob i've trained with cages my whole life i've never never hold the exact same thing i never held on reflex like no man i just push yeah i'm never hell i know you're right now that i think about it in practice i i can't recall a single situation where someone's trying to take me down i hold on defense like it doesn't know 100 it's it's it's intentional and they know they can get away with it one of many holes again me and dave you follow the if you watch the podcast and dave i've solved every problem in the world multiple times over there's a great mindstick of life yeah yeah yeah yeah what can we say all right guys um i think that's it we reached our hour um i gotta go i gotta go give this melon a haircut um yeah but um yeah that's it man i had fun let's do this again dave i'll be i'll be around i'll be out of town this weekend but i'll be back next week again awesome sounds good all right guys hope you guys enjoyed see you guys next time [Music] ciao you