BTG 54 - Hunting for a Core BJJ Curriculum

[Music] hey guys what's going on david avalon here with my co-host robert drysdale for another episode of breaking the guard robert you're coming back from your travels where were you this time yeah i just got back from uh from london i was there for a few days for a little bit of work um a little bit of fun just like four days quick trip back and forth great to be back went to uh british museum i went to a castle called heaven castles a small castle went to the uh shakespeare globe theater not the original that one burnt down like that it's a replica you know so romeo and juliet that was pretty cool that's cool to be able to see in the shakespeare theater yeah i know it was awesome and eve everything like everything if like outside like the stairs leading up to the balcony i had like a little balcony like right next to the stage it is exactly as it would have had been you know 400 some years ago so it was very very original the play itself was not it was they try to modernize it we had like a bunch of teenagers dressed the way we dress today like you know modern ware and they try to give them modern twists to it which i'm not i have i'm two minds about i think it lost i mean the play's still great but it's i prefer more tradition as i think i prefer something closer to the original everything was so traditional yeah except the way the actors actors were dressed right that's what kind of took some of the the ambience away because for a minute it almost felt like i was traveling in time you know i think i lost some that second to play start but it was great overall was great and modern taking from you and juliet i would imagine with a lot of a lot of phone play yeah yeah i mean they didn't have the phone but they had like everything but they had like bicycles and they had what was the other one i just like you know it was yeah that's the only thing i wasn't crazy about but everything i'm surprised how many kids were there i thought it'd be a lot of old people like a lot of like young people you know i was surprised but anyway that was probably the highlight of the trip what else did i do not much just got back on friday back to the grind but um yeah man so i know you went hunting recently yes sir do anything or not yeah i got myself an elk you got one yeah with the boat with the boat that's badass so um as we put a video of me eating the heart raw yeah so you you ate it yeah yeah i'll show you later so like the whole story i finished the jujitsu camp here which went great and then that very day i drove up to elko nevada which is like right on the border of idaho pretty much and um we get up there i meet my buddy mike who actually i met in costa rica he did one of the camps and he's been hunting for like 30 years so the perfect guy to have to like mentor me i was like i was a white belt now i'm like okay i'll learn the ways so i did all the studying i could do here i didn't practice a lot with shooting and whatnot so we get there day one uh we wake up five in the morning we go glassing which essentially when you get binoculars and you start looking around on a hilltop to see where the animals are unfortunately that first day a ton of elk yeah at least for me there's a lot of elk you saw like three different herds they were making a lot of noise uh so we set up a plan or he did rather of how to intercept one of these herds so we go down through the forest a little bit we get on the trail as we're walking on this trail we hear some wrestling in the bushes so we drop our packs and then he makes an elk call he essentially has like a little like diaphragm thing which is like a whistle so you can make the elk calls so he does like a cow call and right away we're here enough running towards us no way so we're like oh crap we're gonna move right and uh we move off the trail maybe just like 20 yards and there's a couple bushes there there's like a big bush and a little bush he's behind the big bush i'm behind the little one and then he motions me to move over there so i have more you know coverage and as i'm moving uh a calf pops up right in the middle of the trail and it's like looking at me dead in the eyes so then i stopped moving i'm in in a crouch it's stopped moving i already had my bow out with the arrow knocked so i just released and uh caught him right in the lungs so that's ideal shot it's a double lung shot so uh it ran off and then you caught it from the side is that right yeah so it goes so there's through the chest yeah so their instinct is when they spot danger they stand sideways and they look at you the idea is like if you make any move they run and they're running you know away that puts them in a perfect position to get killed yeah that's what natural selection has not figured out yet we have not had enough elks in in contact with david avala shooting arrows at them for them to figure that out yeah so unfortunately for them dears all the other servants do the same type of thing apparently so that's so cool so when uh they shot she uh she ran off the trail and then you wait typically like 30 minutes for the animal to to pass because you don't want to spook it and make it run further than it has to so we had breakfast right where we're at and then after that we went to follow the trail and as you can see the blood trail the era unfortunately was lost in the wilderness because like the arrows passed through which is something so it's still running after you shot it yeah yeah they don't drop dead right in the spot only if you get a heart shot the problem is a heart shot's very tricky because it's right next to the scapula yeah it's a big ridge bone and if you hit that you won't kill the animal you'll hurt it and then it's going to be suffering you don't want a hard shot you want to lose well you would but it's just very difficult you're off i mean for the lungs yeah you're better off i mean the lungs is a very big area for the most part so there's you have a lot more leeway you don't have to be like hitting a pinpoint the lungs essentially on a full-grown elk you would have like eight by 12 inches yeah so that's a pretty big target yeah and anywhere you hit there generally if you get both lungs they'll pass and uh the arrows also a lot of people realize they pass through they go right through like a bullet yeah so it's pretty gnarly oh through the from both sides that's why he's a double lung shot because he's gonna hit one hit the other one and then get out the other way oh wow i don't want that they're good they're going out with a lot of power yeah and so that's why like my arrow got lost because it went into like some thick brush and like gone it's not going to be impossible how much do they cost out of curiosity arrows like 20 bucks each so okay it's not too bad not too bad but like you don't want to lose a bunch of them yeah you want you're cooking losing one or two a trip that's it and i i broke one of mine practicing here so like so i only had like four arrows left when i got there so now i got three but uh fortunately we followed the blood trail and uh it took us like probably like 30 40 minutes to find the body because it only went 100 yards away but it starts weeding around and you have to follow these little drips of blood and at one point in a bush off the trail there was a lot of blood and a tree went down so it looked like it crashed stood there for a bit and then ran somewhere else but there wasn't much blood after that point because it looked like it bled out so he barely found it yeah so we started doing a little grid search looking looking and eventually it was just off the trail i saw the body and then uh we went there and confirmed it was a little bit higher than the ideal shot but still double lung and uh from there we started feel addressing it so if you answer this we talked about this like many podcasts ago like many moons ago and we talked about chase hunting right so back in the day you would hurt an animal and just outrun it because it can only run for so long even if it wasn't that hurt animals can't sprint for very long because they have to stop to cool down right so we catch up to them in an open field could you do that to an elk just outrun it because an open field what reason i say open field is because it's easy for us to run and easy to spot them yeah like in a bushy area or it might be harder i like mountains might be hard to keep up with it but if you're talking about opening could you potentially kill an elk like that but persistence hunt i'm not sure you know if it's open field i guess technically you could thing is they live in very mountainous terrain so okay that's yeah so that's the terrain is everything because like there's there's going to be a point where they can go places you can't go right well they're just going to be able to get there a lot faster so like they might be able to rest a lot more than yeah normally it might take forever because when you talk about persistence hunters at least from my knowledge they're like the aborigines and the africa plains yeah i'm thinking like and it's also easier to track when like like i said this elk was only probably less than 100 yards away 40 minutes to find and it's not moving it's dead you know so if it was moving it would just it would get lost really fast and it's hard for you to move in areas where it's easy for them to move because when you're moving to a thick brush and you're making all this noise you know and you're going slow they can just run through it yeah so i think in those areas like it'd be hard it'd be hard you know there's something about like uh um like having a i mean killing it with a rifle i think would be nowhere near as fun as a bow and arrow um i think spear or something like that would be like the next level um i've never i killed a rabbit once with a 22. that's as much as i've ever done but it's it sounds like a lot i mean you're going to get an angry email some animals activist david just so you know yeah as soon as someone listens to this podcast well just so they know we harvested everything so i ate you know i took the liver all the the mussels i mean are they okay with that if you do that i think so right that's the correct i think it's a little better in the sense that if you're a pure vegan you'll probably still not be happy about it if you're like i guess there's a difference between being ethically vegan and then like healthy dietary health vegan rather ethically they think from my understanding all animal kills are not killing yeah it's an interesting discussion because they call it speciesism right it's like a new term like one of the many new terms i am obligated to become accustomed to um but basically it's the idea that all species all life is equally valid yeah which is i don't know it seems f morally ethically sound but very anti-natural as well yeah because we would have not had if that were true if that is a standard to follow we would have not had made it out of the stone age like we would like we don't know now we because we're farming animals we've been farming that's what got us out of prehistory right so i don't know how far you really take that argument that all species are created equal and it's a repeat like for example the for the most people this is going to be the most ethical hunt you could do the most fair hunt because the shot was took and taken at less than 20 yards yeah it was very close yeah like 20 yards is a little bit further out than this room but it's not that far yeah which i was fortunate that it was so close can you believe i still think in meters 13 years and i just like it's still like i i i meet there's venice like about like 17 meters more or less so it's pretty close right yeah um and my buddy was talking about this was too easy and for your first hunt it was within the first two hours of hunting okay yeah you got your first shot within 20 yards you know it was a kill shot beginners left they call it yeah beginner's luck you know so anyways you've been practicing i've been watching you've been practicing for months well i when i told him about practice he's like you practice a lot right because i thought i shot over a thousand arrows like in six weeks oh wow yeah i was i was out every day multiple times a day nice so i i feel that let me know next time you do that i might come over man like i'd love to i'd like to give it a go yeah i might get into that man like i i was um sorry if i interrupted you i don't know just before i forget so i'm turning 40 this year in october i did i got my 40 already when you got your 40 would you join my seventh july just now just recently yeah this is giving a happy birthday happy birthday but i'm turning 40 in october and everyone's like what are you gonna do you're gonna do like honestly man i'll normally forget my people remind me my birthday i'll forget like i never even think about it but everyone's like oh you gotta do something let's go to cancun and get wasted i'm like i don't know it doesn't sound very i don't know doesn't sound very appealing to me so i had the idea last time i was in maui these guys invited me to go boar hunting and um man that sounds like a great thing to do so what they do is they the dogs do most of the work really you just got to keep up with the dogs dogs will find the boar you got to make sure you keep up with the dogs yeah five dogs i think is the number they they they want like four to five dogs can outdo a bore they get to the bore the boar is pinned down one of the friends comes from behind lifts the leg up the boar's legs up right and then you come in with a knife and stab it in a heart oh wow yeah that's how you kill a boar apparently it's not particularly dangerous because the dogs are taking all the risk really i mean as long as you don't get rental i mean if the boar managed to free itself i suppose it could hurt you you just got to be careful but you know it's not the most dangerous i'm probably not as dangerous as it sounds but i mean i'm excited that's going to be my 40th birthday nice i'm gonna go tomorrow and kill the boar yeah man that's the way to do it yeah it's guys i think it's something about like pulling a trigger is not it's just not as hard as stabbing something you know with a knife like that's gonna be a lot harder i'm almost like i'm going back and forth on him can i can i'm not gonna be able to do it when time comes i like to think i will but it's it's kind of you know i've never killed anything like that well i'll tell you my side of this right because i was thinking the same thing i'm like well you know when it comes time because i watched a lot of the youtube videos of people hunting like first person perspective type thing i'm like this is pretty intense you know because it's not a still target you know sitting there looking stupid right yeah it's a live animal it's looking around it makes noise and then you're going to be there you have to you know even with the bow you're technically pulling the trigger there's a release right uh so there's a release but there's a lot more yeah yeah there's two within yeah pulling the truck on a gun yeah as i'm saying so you're doing all that i'm like oh i wonder how that's going to feel so i did lots of visualizations like i treat this like every like a competition exactly a lot of training my buddy told me practice a lot of kneeling shots because there's going to be times you're going to be shooting from your knees which it ended up being so like he was on the money on that right um but when it came to it i just pulled and then afterwards he's like how's your heart rate like like normal fine you know like 70s 80s right it was like i didn't feel like any different and then the second part i thought well feel addressing the animal that's going to be kind of gory right because xanthe kind of skinny you know i mean i mean i'm assuming he's like helping you do that you've never done before i i bought an online course on elk hunting you know i buy online courses too right so like i bought one and it gives a bunch of videos so i had a good idea what to do but it's one of those things you want someone showing you firsthand so he would do one leg and then i'll do the other leg and then like he showed me every different body part and then i would do it afterwards and it's a lot less bloody than i anticipated i guess a lot of this because the animal bleeds out well i mean most of the blood is internally if you're skinning it right but you're cutting the muscles you know out most of the blood would be in the arteries veins yeah so far like in the circulatory system so if you're just going through the muscles i think that's yeah there should be that much blood yeah there's a lot less blood than i anticipated like very little you know it's kind of like just butchering meat which i do all the time so i'm like oh it's just butchering me so but you guys carry i mean it's a lot of meat well this was a smaller elk so like i said it was like a calf probably like a year old somewhere around there so not on the big baby killer it's a youngin that needs more tender it's like a veal yeah because i told my buddy afterwards like was that like a good shot you know like to go for this he's like oh yeah yeah you know something okay so it's probably about like 200 pounds or something the actual animal so i was able to drag it a little bit just to like because it was in the bush i dragged it to like an open area and then we field dressed up there and we debone it there so pretty much you skin down one leg the torso the other leg and you essentially use the skin like a tarp yeah and then you do all the cutting there it's interesting is that the shoulder the front shoulders have no bones or joint it's only like fascia really yeah so like to cut off the front legs you just knife and the leg comes off looks like it comes off it's like oh i guess that makes sense they don't have to spread out wide they're only going this way yeah yeah the back legs have a hip joint of course and then you have to keep more of that off there you just twist the leg and break it yeah and then you finish deboning it and then the head so you bought a course on how to do that yeah okay yeah but he you know i didn't really need the course because he was walking me through it yeah yeah yeah i mean even with a course i'd rather like i would want someone who's done it before yeah next to me the whole time so he's different in theory versus course application and the head's pretty gnarly because you have to twist it off also like you cut off a little bit around the skin around the neck just to get some of the ligaments and tendons loose and then just twist it pops out and you have to keep the head to prove that uh the sex of the animal that you hunted so you put the tag on the ear and then uh you gotta report that to someone you report it and if you're gonna have the meat processed by any butcher they're gonna need to see the head to prove that you had a valid license you think a hunting might be something that's under threat just thought about that like i'm not sure i know my there's gonna be pushback i can see but i i can see this being a next cultural war like the ethics of hunting because it's it's it's it's like it's been such a constant push towards you know what is perceived as political correctness that i wonder where it ends like where is it is it going to stop like i think that hunting might be a next a next trench in in this war you know like they're going to push to make it illegal i might want to get my hunting before it becomes illegal i'm serious because i think that i i wouldn't be surprised if there's like a year or two this just made it illegal period it would be a very ignorant thing right because it's like that's what the champion all these hunting uh all the fees you're paying towards the hunting license getting the tag and applications all that go towards animal conservation because you're not just hunting willy nilly you're you're hunting a specific animal so for for me it was antlerless elk yeah so essentially it's female or young right that you're hunting and because there's an abundance of them there's more of them than that so like the big trophy elk the with the antlers yeah my buddy i guess he said he's been hunting you know 30 years he's never got a tag for one they're very difficult to get the license to kill one of those yeah they're very difficult because it's a lottery system right they're alpha males right so they're like they have many fees and that how it works they have like a lot of them yeah yeah there's like a harem that they have right so they're they're less they're less males than they're would compromise a specie if you kill only males for example yeah so they generally when they kill males they are counting the population and they're trying to figure out okay which number are we looking to call you know to help the population grow if there's too many males it creates problems that there's too many females of course so there's rangers out there that are figuring all this out and then that's how they give the tags out they say okay you can kill this many of this animal this many of the sex you know so it's helping control the population and keep it healthy you know so and the reality is unless you're going to oppose all meat consumption yeah hunting is just like getting meat from the grocery store except you're doing extra steps it's just there's something more humane about it because it is because the animal lives a free life yes and you know it gets killed yes relatively quickly you know and that's it so uh when people are like oh that's gross like you you're killing the animals like well do you eat meat like where do you think your music yeah exactly except that you're buying normal beef it's from the industrialized farm where you have just far worse you know which i i would think they would rather die you know out in the wild versus being pinned up you know but uh they lived out in the wild more importantly right yeah they died in their environment absolutely the the interesting part about this is getting the heart out which i was telling you about oh yeah so you have to cut around the membrane because there's a lot of tissue that holds the heart in the chest cavity but then at a certain point you just rip it out and it's like it just pops out and the lungs are attached to it so that's when i confirmed the shot because you could see the arrow hole to the both lungs you know and then you cut out the lungs that apparently my buddy was saying earlier that you know it was like a native american tradition like to take a bite out of heart after your first kill that healthy i don't know but i was like that sounds kind of cool yeah yellow right so yeah bit it and uh you know it wasn't as bad as i thought it would be it's kind of like what no it's more like unseasoned meat and that's like okay could you i mean did you manage to actually get a chunk and oh yeah and swallow it yeah yeah yeah yeah okay yeah i'll show you the video afterwards yeah okay all right so yeah you bite it it's not that again it's not that bloody or anything like that you know so it's just like me i eat heart you know like cow heart i've never eaten cow i mean brazil it's a very commonly chicken heart like that's it's on on the menu all the time yeah the cowheart's the same it's kind of like a fillet the only difference is like the first part of the bite kind of like sinewy yeah like membrane but then the rest is kind of fellaish you know so it's a muscle meat yeah eats very similar to any other meat you would have got it and that's great man it's quite the experience yeah no we did that packed everything away and then you have to hike everything back unfortunately we weren't that far from camp but then uh we got to eat some of it at the day and cut up some steaks from it delicious and uh you put everything in the cooler meat is delicious yeah it's right it's pretty good i still like i'm preferring the bison still over the elk but that looks really good and i made some here like i had to bring it back here and then clean up all the meat afterwards that was more work than anything like six hours i was like taking off fat membrane chopping up i've never done any of that vacuum sealing it squeezing it it would take me i don't even know where to begin after the first like four hours i messaged my bed like how long does it take you to do it so it's gonna take you a while you have to get used to doing it like oh god and you need a really sharp knife if you're not like my knife started getting dull after a few hours you gotta sharpen yeah yeah i was like oh god so i got my hunting knife and i started using that like yeah man that's uh um that's quite the experience man like i would love to do something like that like i think i never had an urge for it but like i mean i just i'd like to have that experience you know what you want you want to cross off your bucket list one of the better parts about it is just the actual camping experience right because when me and him were there we were the only people there no one else you know so just me and him we're walking in the wilderness our camp is set up in a nice you know trees so like we have coverage we're grilling up steak so you know from the the elk you have like a pure night sky you can see the milky way and everything so it's just and there's no phones no internet you know no it's very peaceful super peaceful you know so like like i got to see the other side of hunting the more real side when it was his turn because he was graceful enough to like let me go first yeah because his thing is actually what you're kind of mentioning before he wants to try to bring in new people to hunt oh hi let me know let it let him know i'm interested i'll go yeah i'm sure yeah i'd love to man it sounds like such a great experience yeah so when he went unfortunately he had a much tougher time the elk started moving uh north it looks like they were going towards idaho so we had a hard time killing him we had a couple close calls we had one standoff that was a 90-minute standoff with an elk yeah where essentially uh we found one bedded it was in between a bunch of trees so we could see the body but not enough to take a clear shot yeah and we had to well rather he was creeping his way towards it so it took like it was about 90 minutes of trying to inch your way through without making noise because it was awake it was just lying down and he was within 50 yards and then it started to rain and he got up and we're like oh great because it was facing this way and if it walked like a few yards there it was a perfect channel for him to shoot but it made a quick little u-turn and went the other way god it was like 90 minutes resting on your knees you know that's like you i can't do 90 seconds 90 minutes yeah you're like holding there and they're like oh and you're slowly unfolding like going from knees it's like a sniper yeah that's what they said sniper is like you know it's the hardest job soldier because you have to even the training you have to sit there for like what like something i don't know how long it's about like something like a day and if you got to pee you got to go number two you got to go number you can't move that's part of the job is you just got to be on target waiting yeah you would think oh sitting down for like an hour it doesn't seem difficult i'd be terrible at it i get fired from like i get like get out of it i wouldn't lie i don't think i could man like just stay in the same position for that long it sounds awful well then we like i started like we were both double knee and then i went okay knee and butt okay then you have to get another butt an indian style yeah and then at the end since i wasn't shooting i'm okay i'm just gonna lay down that would have been me after five minutes yeah i was laying down and then i just come up a little bit see if i could still arrange find them you know okay he's still like oh man he was he had to obviously stay in the position where he could shoot so his leg fell asleep at one point and he had to use his hand to like move his leg around you know oh that's rough yeah but it was it was fun that some of the close calls we had you know and uh we there was one where we were pursuing them and then uh he had taken a shot but it was really far 75 yards and uh it was just underneath it it ran off and then we were trying to intercept them and they're smart you know so like once they're spooked they're very cautious so it's like five steps stop look around five steps stop looking around and they were going up mountains so this kind of thing like it's hard to chase them up the mountains you know so we're trying to cut them off on the other end but at a certain point like they were gonna cross the boundary like oh we're gonna we're gonna lose them you know so we had to make our move didn't work out but that's awesome man like you know for sure glad you had that that experience uh the olympic silverman just kind of switching topics yes they are over right i don't know who won i know at least for wrestling the u.s got the most medals so that was a big uh you see that guy uh um there's a guy he broke a record for um a cuban guy i met him when i was in cuba oh i met him big big dude he won he's the only guy i've ever won four consecutive olympics oh wow greco-roman heavyweight division well even over carolyn right no yeah carolyn had three oh yeah yeah yes really messed him up yeah yeah yeah yeah so that was going to be his fourth right so this guy me hanging up is he did um yeah four con 16 years that's amazing being on top of the world that's that's surreal to me because if you think of jiu jitsu like think of a guy who's been on top of the world forever like bushes right for example right how long is that we're talking six years where he's on top of the world seven years maybe right uh or like bruno moffat scene out there i believe in 12 years which is very impressive i think he's got 12 world titles and like same division so he's won like 12 consecutive something like that right um but this guy's 16 years man on top of his game so that means he would have been like something like 20s first olympics one and then 36 to win or whatever that you know super impressive because i was telling my my girlfriend had sent me an article or i think i sent her one it was a swimmer a u.s swimmer he won the olympics gold at 20 years old or 21 retired and then like he just fell off the wayside apparently he got into drugs and he got into it he got overweight and then after like five six years of eating crap he decided he was going to go back into the olympics he got back in like at 35. what's gold medal what sport is that it was swimming i forgot which one but he won a gold medal you know 35 oldest like swimmer to win a gold medal so i thought that was fascinating because i'm like that couldn't happen in introducing martial arts because like the swimming technique like it's somewhat limited as far as like yeah there's not i'm nations swimmers will get angry when you say this but compared to martial arts there's not a lot of technique oh no i mean there is technique but like it's it's a bit more finite right like if you want a gold medal already you already know how to swim and you already are swimming like a world class there isn't a lot of innovation like oh you know now if we swim like this yeah we're gonna get better there's some like gear like they can get like streamlined better but like they're not gonna mechanically swim better because the style is fixed that's the other thing like when you say a style like you're saying like whatever name you style like the what do you call it yeah the bristol truck whatever there's a way you can't swim differently you can't come up with a new like you have to swim that's that's what it's a style yeah so it doesn't change the swimmers get better the training technique gets better yeah the style is the same whereas martial arts like every tournament it's the styles are changing yeah it's very fluid so we look just at like right now mma 16 years ago it's like the stone ages yeah like that the technological evolution of all the the moves is just it blows away everything back like if you were like a a champion like what it would have been like 2006 2007 it's kind of almost worthless to like being a champion now like they're very different worlds because our sport is evolving so much and it's so complicated that even if it stopped evolving just the amount of technique that you have to learn is enormous it's a huge problem yeah because you have uh as an instructor you know this you have a an enormous problem in your hands because what is it that you select to teach you have to make choices because you can't teach at all yeah if i i i wrote a curriculum once and i remember it took two years to go full circle and it was limited it wasn't even that extent so you're gonna learn like two techniques a day every day for two years straight before you go back to the beginning that's a lot of that's a lot of moves that's a lot of moves and i remember when i wrote this it was like 400 it was like it's not even um it doesn't scrape the surface there's just so much more because there are variations of the same move yeah right so you have to make decisions as a coach as to what you're going to teach your students and and you're talking about a big group of people and they have different ideas of what jiu jitsu is so for example you're going to go i'm going to teach a lot of fundamentals and then you're going to please a lot of students who can't do they're perhaps very athletic or they're not very flexible they got a gut on them so they can't do a lot of fancy stuff and then you're going to get your hardcore purple belt that's 22 with a shoulder roll gui who's obsessed with like jiu jitsu videos on youtube and spends half of his life on instagram that guy wants advanced technique he wants what's new he associates new with good right he makes that association and you got those two demographics on the same mats so you have to make a decision what demographic am i please and a lot of gyms they pick one demographic or the other right i've always tried to run things somewhere in the middle which i think is one reason i've always managed to have like a big program i've always had a lot of guys in the gym but i've it's very hard to keep the margins i get people who feel it's not self-defense enough this is not you know um i mean it's too complicated for me and then you get the guys that are obsessed with buried bolos and they're disappointed because they're not getting enough durian bolos you know because that's all they want to do do you think they want to learn onboard from closed guard that's below me you know in their mind but that's like two percent of your students three percent of your students so you have to find a balance of what you're going to teach and what you're not going to teach because and like you mentioned and there's new stuff coming up all the time i i'm almost like i want to even like shorten instead of like expanding the canon making it even smaller and just give people an idea of what those rabbit holes are and if they want to run with that rabbit hole that's on them because as an instructor of like 300 some students i can't focus on margins i have to focus on the body of what the group looks like right to have a healthy group super tough decisions though because you're going to get a i mean i've i struggled with this in the past you get pressure from all ends you know who do you teach for because if you have a bunch of like 20 year olds that don't have a life well that's easy it's simple yeah if you have a bunch of moms that just want to learn self-defense well that's all so simple what if you got them all what do you do yeah no yeah that's uh what makes the training for the sport so difficult but at the same time it makes it very interesting right because there's more than one way to win right like so with swimming you know something that's very like binary in a sense like you just have to go fast as you can this way but jiu jitsu or mma that's like well you can win by striking you can win by you know wrestling you win by submissions you can win by pinning or control so like it that's why i think it's the the most complicated but most fascinating sport in existence i i'm with you i mean we're biased yeah like i can't think of it i've made the argument i think jiu-jitsu is more complicated than chess like i can't think of anything that's more complicated because it's emotional just there's a lot more a lot more emotion there's a lot more variables yeah a lot of physiology involved that other sports like i mean rockmelo the extreme of exhaustion here all the time you can be exhausted from wrestling in three minutes yeah even if you're in shape or you don't want like three minutes you could be an olympic caliber athlete athlete and gash yourself out in three four minutes depending how hard you're going yeah like not many soccer that doesn't happen it doesn't happen in other sports you know um but like you know you know going back to technique thing man and and this is where i've i don't think anyone's ever really figured this out because i don't think there is a solution perhaps there is but we can all agree that the common denominator for success and fighting is very little to do with technique per se or specific techniques of course you got to be tech and we got to know stuff that's not what i'm saying because if that were true if there were a particular style that is dominant then everyone would naturally gravitate towards that style and all the champions would look exactly the same yeah but if you follow let's say whether you want to follow ibjjf or any other league doesn't matter just watch the champions right and watch you know from rooster with division let's say the from the first to third place in all divisions let's say blackburn you analyze their styles very different very very different even in the lightweight divisions you're like okay they'd prefer to be in guard play play guard but if you watch how like these guys play guard it's not identical they have their own styles it's similar but it's all bit different right my point is it can't be a style that is a determining factor right so that might it you know like my take the classic example is roger who has like literally like four moves five moves but he does him with such precision that he's virtually unstoppable like like kale sanders and he watched kale sanders and wrestle and it's that ankle pick yeah over and over and over like yamashita he had like he never lost the matches and i think he lost one match as a child but he retired and defeated yamachita in one move so tagari was like the first move you learn in the judo class it's like the foot sweep it's just anybody's unstoppable with it right my point is there must be something else that is the the the common denominator is not the technique is my point the common denominator has to be mindset it has to be how they perceive athletics combat how they perceive what they're doing because if it were technique it would be someone we would have cracked that code a long time ago because it's on the surface right the technique is on the surface you can learn it you can you know drill it it's but gearing your mindset to victory is not on the surface it's dip deep deep deep into your psyche and i think this is why to me i'm fascinated by this like i spend so much time like what is how is it that you can get someone who is insecure to become secure how do you get someone who has no confidence like i'm never gonna win boycotts himself gives up you know suffers from like too much anxiety gets too nervous how do you turn that person to an absolute killer who just laughs at the idea that they're going to lose that day because i'm sure i'm sure you've experienced this like and i've spent this maybe like three four times in my life where i felt like that like i was absolutely invincible like you're just like feel like man today i'm gonna win yeah and you look at your opponent you're like yeah right like you don't say yeah but it's normally you're dealing with what i don't know you know my ankles kind of hurt and i had a bad week and this guy's really good you know you're always dealing with that doubt i would love to see if i mean i would love to learn if some psychologist cracks this code or if anyone can actually get to the bottom of this and like how is it that we train our confidence and our determination to win right or our you know uh um so our medal to win because that's to me that's the key that's the that's the dominant factor you can have three techniques man if you have that heart and resolution to win it doesn't matter two techniques will win to a world title like it's not it's not the amount or quality of the technique it's just i think it's something deeper for sure it is i i can think of a few times as well where you hit that flow state if you will where like you're you're in the zone i know uh for me that was 2009 for adcc yeah i had uh my first submission wins in adcc were both my first two matches and the second one was the more striking one which was against tarsus humphreys it was a rematch for me that i lost in double overtime so when i finished them within the first five minutes uh with kimura chop one arm choke that was like boom and right after that i felt invincible i was already eyeing uh i was gonna fight andre got down next i'm like i'm gonna chew him up yeah but i didn't realize it was the next day i thought they did i thought they went up to the finals oh man i hate that yeah i hate that i was tuned up i was like boom and i remember everybody was going to go zion's like oh man you got jiu jitsu now you're doing submissions and this and that i was so in the zone and then gavao wasn't having a good day that first day he looked kind of tired yeah and he fought chris weedman and had a oh i was close he's close close he got out of some tough darts chokes and he won like in overtime i'm like oh especially now he's totally worn out and he's gonna have to grapple with me he's done yeah and then i'm like wait wait they're calling the mats like what's going on they go they only do the first two matches on day one i'm like ah dude i like i had an adrenaline dump right there i was like i was so tuned in and then what's interesting what you're saying what happens overnight like for me i never slept i was so excited i was just thinking about that match and like every possible outcome and how it would counter this counter that heart rate was like so i didn't sleep well no no i didn't sleep at all yeah i was up the whole night and i remember i was like well i guess this is going to be the rest of the night you know just my heart going like 110 beats per second you know so like when i saw the sun come on they go all right here we go and i don't know i'm not sure if it was the effects of the weight cut also combined because i had cut really hard for that i was the last guy to make weight for 80s to see i'm also the reason why i i think they changed the weigh-in rolls like same day weigh-ins because they were really pissed that it took so long to make way god dave you got to ruin everything a lot i think i'm i'm not sure but i'm pretty sure that's what happened because they weren't the timing of it the timing they weren't happy because i missed the rules meeting yeah which was important and i figured out and when i fought got val that i wasn't feeling i wasn't in the same headspace still a good match though i you know i had a good bite on the heel hook i had a good bite in the kimora trap but something i missed out on the rules meaning cost me two points because i guess they changed the rules that year where if you went for a submission and you failed you could stay on your back and it wouldn't count as a sweep uh i thought it would be a sweep so like you know what i had to stand back up i tried to stand back up and he took me down got two off the and you were like essentially we're in a heel hook position yeah but he it looked like he was trying to get a knee slicer i'm like oh no i'm not gonna let that happen you know you know what i'm gonna bail this stand up and he just stood up with the yeah took me down too and then when i got up i did the kimura trap had him stuck but ran out of time yeah and then i learned afterwards if i would have just stayed on my butt it would have been no points yeah i lost to jacques for similar reasons like i completely spaced out because i thought if you shot in and sat it wasn't two points but i think it's something you have to stay on the shot for three seconds before you say yeah yeah yeah it's it's a weird i have a lot of weird rules some of them doesn't make sense but like i shot in and sat and then jakarta scored two and that's how i lost but between that that flow thing this is what when ibj jf like did they change that where the semi final and the final or the next day when they changed that i was no longer competing i'm so thankful because i think they changed that the i stopped my last year was 2007. the last time i completed the world championships and in 2008 i think is when they changed about 9 10. it was like right after right whatever that was and i was so happy because i would have hated that because to me the hardest match is always there's the first one it's not the final it's always the first one physically and psychologically both right because when you go back home not only do you cool down you go back to that state of anxiety and doubt but you lose that more importantly you lose that flow yeah because a flow is a build up it's not something i mean maybe there's some guy out there who's genetically gifted who wakes up every morning in that flow zone like maybe michael jordan's like that i don't know maybe there are these people that are excellent and they have that psychological advantage which i i strongly believe is genetic i don't think i think lord to a large extent not completely but i think some people just have something that other people have to work really hard just to come close to but i never had that like i have to build up my confidence to that flow zone so i i that's why i always like like the longer the tournament went the better i hated super fights because that's your first fight every time like if i determine like four or five fights like better like the more the better because i feel like i personally benefited more from that build up than other people did physically and psychologically physically i always died in my first i almost like like i mean i lost count of how many times i'd crawl off the mats i have nothing left in here how am i gonna come back from my second match give me 15 20 minutes catch my breath still a little winded a second fight you know maybe tired from the first win strategical win it's in my final i'm fine i'm flying like i'm in the final when i win i'm like oh man i feel great i can go again you know and that's why it's just such a mood killer to stop the tournament the semi-final send everyone back home that's the other problem is the injuries if you're going if you got a bat toe ankle or something you keep going yeah when you stop cool down eat shower sleep next morning man you're in pain and now you got to go back in there and warm up and do it all over again i think it's a terrible idea to do that i think you should get it all done in one day i think almost every competitor would agree i think very few people would prefer to go home take a break because it takes oh you're resting you're not resting you're just losing that flow and you're giving your injuries an opportunity to scream at you yeah i think especially for like a 16 man tournament four matches in one day is not asking a lot now if it was like i see some of the trials now that like 128 man brackets okay maybe six that's six six or seven is it six or seven yeah like maybe you want to rest i always say i've done ten man in one day i've done five yeah that was uh the day before i got my black belt was uh brazilian championships 2003 i beat some big names and did you i'm not going to mention anything like i beat some big names that day i two thought i won my weight class in the open all submissions but by one match one like guy in the big name of jesus coming i beat him on point everyone else by submission all when one day back to back i was like my and i felt great and at the end of the final man i feel like i could i mean i was hungry my body was tired yeah like like my body i could feel my body like you need to eat but my mind and lungs like if i had to run three miles like i would have been able to run and knock out because like my body was awake so to speak that year we also won that was a big day because we were like a few points behind btt and when i won the open we barely passed btt to claim first place oh nice so we went we all won the day for the team as well so it was a big day i got my black belt the next day or the next weekend whatever it was um but yeah i mean like i love i like that flows i like longer believe it or not man like the more matches the better the only issue is the food yeah i didn't know this at the time like before i go we're like oh i'm gonna eat a hot dog not because i i knew hot dogs weren't the best option but there's if you're in arena there are not a lot of options unless you bring food sure and my dumb ass would bring pasta which now i know is not the best thing to eat during matches right or in between whenever you get a break i always recommend people bring nuts and seeds because they're very quick energy but there's some raisins in there if you want for the sugar it's quick energy and it gives you stability of energy there's no peak like there's not a lot of sugar in them and you have enough energy to keep going and they're very light on the stomach that's the beauty of it versus like eating like a meal you know like if you get like a lunch break or something but other than that man i actually actually like the the long tournaments because i always did better at the end yeah i know like at least early career my stamina was always a key factor and i always trained for that also so i know like if we're going into later rounds that i have an advantage yeah i always felt that like uh that year that we had our absolute match before when i fought uh zanji i'm like okay this is going to be a double overtime win yeah i knew it off the get-go i'm not going to score stylistically stylistically you could have called that because you're both top players well no i know he's never had his guard passed right so i'm like it's probably not going to happen today did he pull on you that day or no yeah he did i think initially i know he pulled in me once i might have i've taken them down i took him down once but it wasn't the no points but i remember you guys had a war it was like 40 30 minutes what was it well here's the thing so that year was 2007. so i fought tarsus and in the rules being they said there was a single overtime i lost to tarsus in double over time which i'm like how is there two like oh we can call two so i'm like oh well that's convenient okay fine the two is the limit he said yeah two is the limit so when i went to the absolute i drew zanzi i'm like okay i'm going to beat them and double overtime because i know that i'm just going to drag them out wear them out so when double overtime ends i'm like i got this yeah and like triple overtime i was like yo what happened to dude but this is the 25-minute match this is a cost constant complacency like their rules change like i think that the referee kind of they kind of make it up as they go like it's one of the truth because this is this is a constant problem and one last thing you see is happening all the time one criteria here completely different criteria then when you say something they get all angry didn't want to hear it i'm like uh you know yeah i i i don't i don't i don't think that's very silly i like ib jeff's got a lot of problems but if there's a mistake it's an individual mistake the criteria is consistent i think that's very very important like it just consists because you have to prepare strategically too yeah yeah of course like you have to know you're making decisions you can't wonder like oh it's whatever the referee is going to decide what you know you have to know what he's going to do when you do x y or z yeah that's what i think a lot of people uh there's that element to competition that some people miss out and they they oh i hate the point rules and all that's like it's the problem is you don't understand the rules well enough to play them because they're meant to be played right so whenever i competed i always did my best to understand the roles and how i would use him to win because you don't necessarily have to be the best jiu-jitsu guy or best technician to win a match you just have to understand how you can win by the rules and exploit that so like for example with sanji at that point he was a better judiciary guy at me but i had better stamina better wrestling i can beat you just by being able to impose my will and grind you out and hopefully get you tired enough where you make a mistake yeah you know so uh i mean you can win that way and that's a lot of people end up weighing that way and they get frustrated you have to understand the roles better you know if you're a competitor these are your limitations and you're doing everything you can within those limitations to get some type of strategy is a fact of sports like it drives me crazy like here's the thing there are things you can do to make it less um ibf can be too complex and bureaucratic at times or too many too many band-aids on the problem right so to speak but there's no way around it there is no such thing as creating a rule set it's not going to have strategy this happens in every sport like you're going to create a framework and you're going to create the limitations of what competitors can and can't do and within that framework they're going to you're going to tread on the edge of what the rules allow that's what's i mean it's going to happen and i think that the the the fans you know they want to see a spectacle all the time and if you're a competitor this is the former competitor speaking and every competitor they may not admit this but they're going to agree with me it's like you don't give a [ __ ] what the fans think you want to win yeah yeah you know like oh i go out there throw a show for the fans i'm like yeah that's what you tell people because you know that's what people want to hear right if you're winning an exciting style it's because you are exciting by nature it's not a choice to be exciting to please the fans you walk in there you want to win right that's what you're trying to do if you end up being i would i was i had moments where i was excited for the most part i wasn't exciting to watch i'm not an explosive guy to begin with like to me i don't give two shits i want to win like that's why that's what i was doing it was about you know like i think that some people are naturally exciting to watch they have that like friend joker is an extremely explosive competitor he had that right so for him to throw he's got really good judo so he's like amazing throws like oh it's easy to like that as a fan right but to say that he's doing that intentionally to please if i don't buy it that's when people say like i only go for the submission i'm hardcore i don't buy it i lost because i only go for the submission bull [ __ ] if you could have won by advantage 1 000 you would have preferred that than losing because i only go for this i don't believe it i think it's great to tell people that because maybe it's it makes i don't make people feel that better about jiu jitsu but it's not realistic right and even in the no time limit sub only roles there's strategy to be played just pause this right that's the one thing like i don't like the uh sub only rules as far as like 10 minute round and then goes into the sudden death period because what ends up happening a lot of guys just stall 10 minutes and they go in the overtime where they've been training their drills all they train so they're very good at you know back finishes or whatnot it's like okay i mean you won within this rule set which is essentially survive 10 minutes then attack the final 10 minute you know in the sudden death or even when you do no time limit sometimes people like i'm just gonna wait 30 40 minutes before they go into action they they try to solve problems they created a bigger one that's that's all we had and and not to toot my own horn but i when this whole thing started whatever six seven years ago like i kind of called him like this is what's gonna happen everyone's gonna specialize in overtime yeah because that's strategically as a competitor if i look at the rule set first thing i want to do is like how am i going to use this to my favor yeah right it's the first thing you do don't take any chances during the 10 minutes stay safe and then you hyper specialize in the overtime right and then you know hopefully you put more time into that than your opponent but yeah it's it's but again there i don't think there is a a perfect rule set man like i have i'm trying to put a tournament together like in the house like some super fights and i'm borrowing further from submission only a little bit from adcc ivy jeff and i'm trying to come up like how can we create a perfect rule set i'm going to allow heel hooks and the ghee no one's never done that before no there's only one tournament that's done that before hicks and grace's budo challenge in 2005. they allowed hill hooks in the game you know how many people i saw get hooked in that yi that day zero which i think it's harder to heal hook in the g than nogi i don't know why everyone's all terrified of the hook and they think it's the other way around i think in the no gets more dangerous because the other thing too would be easier to defend in the ghee because if you're fighting for hillary you've got to sleep i grab your sleeve yeah i mean it's over yeah that's it and it's that's that grip is not easy to break if we're both we both got our butts on the ground and i got your steve it is so hard to break that grip if you're standing you can break it but when they're on the ground you don't have that pullback it's just your arm versus his arm i think there'll be very few heels but i'm thinking about allowing and creating somewhat of a more dynamic rule set that favors submission over position but doesn't can position i think that was the great problem this mission did they they had the right intention let's make this more dynamic and submission oriented but they they kind of swung all the other way and they eliminated positioning completely because you don't see guys wrestle because strategically yeah i mean unless you get two wrestlers in there you're gonna see them wrestle but other than that strategically it doesn't make sense to take all that risk and all that effort into taking someone down yeah for me the scoring system behind jiu-jitsu was always based on how these positions translated to mma yeah exactly so takedowns should be valuable because being on top in mma is very valuable very valuable you know i mean so like i came up with what i considered the perfect rule set everyone's got their own perfect rule by the way my brother and i ran a tournament with it and it was very successful very few overtimes a lot of high scoring matches because that's the whole thing like to me if you're going to use score you need to make it easy to score yeah right or and at the very least scoring should create excitement like there's going to be an interesting exchange of motion so you're going to incentivize people to take chances because it's it's simple to score that's like my whole gripe with adcc scoring it's so difficult to score yes it de-incentivizes taking chance yeah right because you know like man if it's so hard to score if i just lose one point i'm done that's like game over already you know so with r it's like take down was two points pool guard minus one if you stand up off your back you get one back so i could pull guard doesn't work out stand up i'm back to zero which makes sense i think i didn't do anything i penalized myself i come up i recover or at the same time i take you down two points you pop up to your feet you get one you did something interesting you came up right you were able to get off in somebody's top position so taking it back without hooks was a point you know those there was a lot of ways to score points so as a result there was always something to do where you could you could take a chance to get rewarded for it now you know there wasn't any emotion that you would make that wasn't rewarded yeah so uh yeah you have to reward people and i it's it's like you have to like understand human nature like if you think it was an investment it's like the analogy i make talk about money people understand at ease for some reason if i if i said dave i got this investment whereas if you win you win a lot and if you lose you lose nothing or very little you like that idea but if i came up with an investment there's a lot of risk here very small reward yeah you were like no thank you right and that's very simple everyone no you don't have to be like a financial wizard to understand this simple enough right everyone wants high reward low risk when it comes to fighting like people don't always seem to understand that it's like no it you have to be no reward and high risk i'm like that's not gonna work man like no one's gonna be diving for like that submission all the time if they're not being rewarded for the attempt or if they're not going to be digged after that take down everything every effort should be rewarded yeah aggression should be rewarded like there has to be something that makes people want to i remember like the buddha challenge was sort of like a radical solution but i actually think it was they're up they were on the right track they had a three to one ratio they might have pushed it a little too far but the three to one ratio was three points for every near submission and one point for positioning so people never stopped going for takedowns and passing guard they're still being rewarded and if you pass the guard you're closer to submission anyway but you know the second there was an opportunity to jump a flying arm or go for that foot lock or go for that guillotine there was no stalling because you knew that you if you if if you could i mean you win if you get the submission if you don't it's close you know three points that gives you a large advantage you know if it was a close fight it's three points for a near submission just give it like you know to keep things in perspective ibjef grants you one advantage for that it's not a lot yeah yeah for the amount of risk you're taking on a flying armbar for example right uh but like a three-point ratio like man you have to pass someone's guard three times take them down three times to match that near submission now you could argue that they pushed it that's a little too much of a disparity but i think they were on the right track because that solves the issue of aggression without getting rid of the problem of not having positioning no one's gonna you're not gonna let anyone pass your guard you're not gonna let anyone you know say you're gonna yeah with submission only if it gets too hard you let him pass and go like this yeah yeah and you wait you cross your arms on your chest and your weight and this works know how much skill it takes to do this you could teach an athletic white belt to do this and he'll give me or you a run for for our money yeah week one you can train in one week to do this and he'll make any black belt like struggle to put him away because it's very easy to cross your arms your chest and not move it really doesn't take a lot of skill no no it doesn't anyway um dave i gotta go man i got my day with my kids today yeah yeah yeah uh man you got me excited about that hunting thing i'm dead serious about meeting your friend by the way oh yeah i would love to i mean the opportunity uh presents itself um i would love to i gotta i gotta fire a thousand arrow shots before i could go practice staying on my knee for my knees for 90 minutes i don't think i can do that one um but yeah and then um yeah maybe we'll do a podcast when i come back from hawaii like kill a bore with a knife yeah man that'd be awesome i'd love to hear that yeah it's intense and uh yeah let's shoot for another one next week man i'm free awesome i'm not going anywhere for a while so all right very cool very cool let's do it all right all right guys always a pleasure thank you dave and i'll see you guys next time [Music] you